6/16 (CNL): Colonial Turf Cup, All Along (G3), Da Hoss S.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

$500k turf race for older horses on grass one week after the G1 Manhattan.

By my count, the only American turf races for older horses with bigger purses between now and Breeders Cup are the Man o' War and Arlington Million. I'm not sure why the placement is a big deal. The Man o' War and the United Nations, for instance, are almost always within a week of each other.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

By my count, the only American turf races for older horses with bigger purses between now and Breeders Cup are the Man o' War and Arlington Million. I'm not sure why the placement is a big deal. The Man o' War and the United Nations, for instance, are almost always within a week of each other.

The Man O'War has only been at the spring Belmont meet for 2 or 3 runnings.

Air Support won the Virginia Derby last year, so its no shock that he shows up here, but I wonder if he would have entered if Shug McGaughey wasn't flush with top turf horses.

Of course, the inconsistent Air Support has laid down nothing but goose eggs this year, so its not like he's bringing a lot of star power to the proceedings.

[Gaelic Storm]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The Man O'War has only been at the spring Belmont meet for 2 or 3 runnings.

Air Support won the Virginia Derby last year, so its no shock that he shows up here, but I wonder if he would have entered if Shug McGaughey wasn't flush with top turf horses.

Of course, the inconsistent Air Support has laid down nothing but goose eggs this year, so its not like he's bringing a lot of star power to the proceedings.

His first race this year at Keeneland he ran wothout shoes. The Dixie he had a little trouble but never really fired.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Gaelic Storm

His first race this year at Keeneland he ran wothout shoes. The Dixie he had a little trouble but never really fired.

He has a lot of things going against him. He missed the last half of last year with physical issues, then shows up this year without shoes (I hadn't realized that--thanks), which sounds like maybe the physical issues didn't go away despite the time off. Plus, he's no longer enjoying the confines of age-restricted races.

I'll wait 'til he shows signs of life and is a square price.

[NTamm1215]

I'm still a little baffled by Colonial's decision to switch the conditions of this race. The last two editions of the 3YO restricted Colonial Turf Cup were won by horses who came back to win the Virginia Derby, one of whom won the Secretariat (Paddy O' Prado). English Channel and Showing Up were both Colonial Turf Cup winners. Now they're turned it into a Grade IV 3YO and Up race that's 7 days after the Manhattan and 6 days after the Monmouth Stakes.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm still a little baffled by Colonial's decision to switch the conditions of this race. The last two editions of the 3YO restricted Colonial Turf Cup were won by horses who came back to win the Virginia Derby, one of whom won the Secretariat (Paddy O' Prado). English Channel and Showing Up were both Colonial Turf Cup winners. Now they're turned it into a Grade IV 3YO and Up race that's 7 days after the Manhattan and 6 days after the Monmouth Stakes.

I really wonder what their reasoning was. Perhaps they viewed your point about the double in the opposite way, ie since both 3yo races were often being won by the same horse, it was redundant to keep both races. Or perhaps they figured if they could lure top 3yo turf runners with a big purse, they could also draw top older horses.

Of course, the difference is that there aren't major 3yo turf races really (other than the Secretariat and perhaps the Hollywood Derby), while there is a plethora of major races for 4yos and up.

Wasn't there a money bonus tied into winning the Secretariat, too?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I really wonder what their reasoning was. Perhaps they viewed your point about the double in the opposite way, ie since both 3yo races were often being won by the same horse, it was redundant to keep both races. Or perhaps they figured if they could lure top 3yo turf runners with a big purse, they could also draw top older horses.

Of course, the difference is that there aren't major 3yo turf races really (other than the Secretariat and perhaps the Hollywood Derby), while there is a plethora of major races for 4yos and up.

Wasn't there a money bonus tied into winning the Secretariat, too?

There was initially a bonus linking the Turf Cup-Va Derby-Secretariat-BC Turf. It was gone by the time Paddy O'Prado won the first three.

The mistake they made is that they're basically never going to get Grade I caliber horses anymore. Grade I caliber horses are going to run in the Manhattan or Monmouth Stakes. They were consistently getting Grade I caliber horses when it was restricted to 3YOs.

They'll also give out 650k in these three stakes races and probably handle less than that. I hope, for their sake, that they stay the hell away from CD in terms of post times.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I really wonder what their reasoning was. Perhaps they viewed your point about the double in the opposite way, ie since both 3yo races were often being won by the same horse, it was redundant to keep both races. Or perhaps they figured if they could lure top 3yo turf runners with a big purse, they could also draw top older horses.

Of course, the difference is that there aren't major 3yo turf races really (other than the Secretariat and perhaps the Hollywood Derby), while there is a plethora of major races for 4yos and up.

Wasn't there a money bonus tied into winning the Secretariat, too?

Edit: Nick posted the Grand Slam of Grass races