playoffs start in round 2

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

He's the best basketball player in the world and the best talent ever. He needs to start making that shot and winning titles to validate it all.

I don't think he does. I think validation comes in the course of 48 minute games, 82 games a year. Best talent ever? I don't agree with that either. The most physically gifted and best in the world currently? Without a doubt. I just don't feel that championships are as necessary as others do to validate anything. Did Oscar Robertson's career become validated when he finally won a title (at age 32, in his 11th year and only after being traded to Milwaukee and playing with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar)? Did Jerry West's career become validated when he finally won a title (at age 33, in his 12th year and only after Wilt was traded to play with him in LA)? Was Kevin Garnett somehow a better player when he finally won a few years ago than he was in his prime in Minnesota?

This year, I think that San Antonio is better than Miami and OKC might be too. James can get 35-10-10 every night and could still lose. It wouldn't lessen his play.

Here are two guys that won three MVP's each and their cumulative numbers for those three seasons:

Player 1................................................. .....Player 2
241.........................games................. .........219
38.6......................minute/game..................38.1
20.4....................attempts/game................19.7
.504...........................fg%................ ...........505
1.7.........................3pt att/game..................4.2
.392.........................3pt %..........................342
5.7...........................ft att/game...................9.3
.889..........................ft %............................773
2.2.........................off rebounds....................1.2
7.9.........................def rebounds...................6.3
10.1..........................rebounds............ ..........7.6
6.7............................assists............ ..............7.4
1.82...........................steals............. .............1.72
0.90...........................blocks............. ............1.00
3.1...........................turnovers........... ...........3.3
26.2..........................points.............. ............28.5

The numbers are very similar I think. Do you know who the two guys are?

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I don't think he does. I think validation comes in the course of 48 minute games, 82 games a year. Best talent ever? I don't agree with that either. The most physically gifted and best in the world currently? Without a doubt. I just don't feel that championships are as necessary as others do to validate anything. Did Oscar Robertson's career become validated when he finally won a title (at age 32, in his 11th year and only after being traded to Milwaukee and playing with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar)? Did Jerry West's career become validated when he finally won a title (at age 33, in his 12th year and only after Wilt was traded to play with him in LA)? Was Kevin Garnett somehow a better player when he finally won a few years ago than he was in his prime in Minnesota?

Did Oscar and Jerry have even 1% of the hype and virtual deep throating the media and fans gave LeBron before he entered the league?

Nah.

Feel free to include him with the greats but don't try and say his situation isn't different from those guys...who seem to be decent guys and don't immediately start premature ejaculating when a camera is in their face.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Did Oscar and Jerry have even 1% of the hype and virtual deep throating the media and fans gave LeBron before he entered the league?

Nah.

Feel free to include him with the greats but don't try and say his situation isn't different from those guys...who seem to be decent guys and don't immediately start premature ejaculating when a camera is in their face.

That's not fair at all. Media coverage back then was nothing at all like it is now. There was no Twitter, Facebook, Myspace, etc. There wasn't sports talk radio like it is now. There was no "Around the Horn" or "First Take" or any number of the shows ESPN has on seemingly around the clock. Hell, there was no ESPN at all. No NBAtv. It's impossible to compare the two eras.

The other thing is, just as a horse doesn't run any better if the public bets him to 3/5 than he would if he was 10/1, LeBron's abilities and performance level doesn't rise or fall based on the media or the fans. I can start a blog saying that Robert Griffin is going to be the best quarterback in history and break every passing record. My blog won't make him play any better. Mike Krzyzewski once said "never let your success or failure be defined by someone else's expectations." Whether the media and fans fawn all over James or they never say another word about him, that doesn't have anything to do with how good or bad he is.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

That's not fair at all. Media coverage back then was nothing at all like it is now. There was no Twitter, Facebook, Myspace, etc. There wasn't sports talk radio like it is now. There was no "Around the Horn" or "First Take" or any number of the shows ESPN has on seemingly around the clock. Hell, there was no ESPN at all. No NBAtv. It's impossible to compare the two eras.

The other thing is, just as a horse doesn't run any better if the public bets him to 3/5 than he would if he was 10/1, LeBron's abilities and performance level doesn't rise or fall based on the media or the fans. I can start a blog saying that Robert Griffin is going to be the best quarterback in history and break every passing record. My blog won't make him play any better. Mike Krzyzewski once said "never let your success or failure be defined by someone else's expectations." Whether the media and fans fawn all over James or they never say another word about him, that doesn't have anything to do with how good or bad he is.

You want to talk about fairness when you're pretty much completely discrediting team championships having any relation to individual greatness.

I mean fine. You've got a few others on here who agree with you that LeBron is great. He's a phenomenal athlete and that's been apparent since he was a kid. I don't deny that. BUT...he is not a great professional basketball player yet. In my opinion he doesn't have the credentials to be included as of this point. Can he? Of course.

Will he? I seriously doubt it. He's proven time and time again to fold when it matters most. And maybe I'm on a different f.ucking planet than the rest of you but championships matter. Whether it's team or individual.

Nobody outside of swim fans know who the f.uck Ryan Lochte is. Broke Phelps' world record in the 200 I.M. Don't really mean s.hit though unless he does it in London.

Done.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

You want to talk about fairness when you're pretty much completely discrediting team championships having any relation to individual greatness.

I mean fine. You've got a few others on here who agree with you that LeBron is great. He's a phenomenal athlete and that's been apparent since he was a kid. I don't deny that. BUT...he is not a great professional basketball player yet. In my opinion he doesn't have the credentials to be included as of this point. Can he? Of course.

Will he? I seriously doubt it. He's proven time and time again to fold when it matters most. And maybe I'm on a different f.ucking planet than the rest of you but championships matter. Whether it's team or individual.

Nobody outside of swim fans know who the f.uck Ryan Lochte is. Broke Phelps' world record in the 200 I.M. Don't really mean s.hit though unless he does it in London.

Done.

Lebron certainly didn't help his reputation last night even after hitting the tying shot. What the hell was that last possession in regulation? Awful...

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Lebron certainly didn't help his reputation last night even after hitting the tying shot. What the hell was that last possession in regulation? Awful...

He doesn't want to shoot when it matters most. Not sure why...because like you said he drained the game tying shot right before that. But he acted like the basketball was on fire the way he got rid of it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

He doesn't want to shoot when it matters most. Not sure why...because like you said he drained the game tying shot right before that. But he acted like the basketball was on fire the way he got rid of it.

Again what was he supposed to do there? When the other team commits 3 guys to you what is the excuse for the other guys standing around? It was an awkward ending but if you watch it again think how is it possible for 4 celtics to be between him and the basket and not a single Heat player is even moving except Chalmers who for some reason was running at him. And the 3 was a far bigger shot than the last second possession. You dont think there is more pressure when you are down by three with 30 seconds to play than when the game is tied? Miss one and the game is probably over, miss the other and you still are playing.

But of course it is LeBron James so all sanity is tossed out the window...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Lebron certainly didn't help his reputation last night even after hitting the tying shot. What the hell was that last possession in regulation? Awful...

What was he supposed to do there? Wade tossed him the ball with 7 seconds on the clock 28 feet from the basket and stood there. When he went right two defenders jumped out at him. Haslem rolled away from the lane, Battier was standing on the far right sideline, Wade left the screen and Chalmers set up 30 feet away from the hoop then rolled toward james.

Garnett was standing right behind Pietrus shadowing James and Chalmers by going at James brought his defender right to him. What would anyone have done there?