Ok I Have Had Enough

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

he was set at even money on the morning line, which blew my mind. i mean, this wasn't the jcgc, this was the bcc! and i said all along not to single him, i chose ouija to single--so it's not like i'm dog piling on now.

Well then, I have to say I didn't see you saying any of that before the race, but I'll take your word for it, and congratulations, you were right.

I just can't stand when people try to sound like geniuses after the fact.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Well then, I have to say I didn't see you saying any of that before the race, but I'll take your word for it, and congratulations, you were right.

I just can't stand when people try to sound like geniuses after the fact.

i felt pretty well about invasor, said all last week not to shrug him off due to the layoff--barbaro taught me that you don't ignore a horse based on just having time away....been on invasor all year. i remember when i was defending lava man after one of his wins, more than one person asked if i felt so good about LM that he was my bcc pick. i said no, that i was backing invasor. just thought lava man got hammered too much, hell he won all but once all year.

doesn't really matter tho, i couldn't put my money where my mouth was on any of the racing.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Well then, I have to say I didn't see you saying any of that before the race, but I'll take your word for it, and congratulations, you were right.

I just can't stand when people try to sound like geniuses after the fact.

Nope, that's not correct either. There were numerous threads, before the fact, where several people tried to point out that Invasor was a serious threat to Bernardini. No matter what was said, getting through to some of the Bernardini people was futile. They acted like they knew it all. To use your words, "they tried to sound like geniuses".

Here is an example.

http://derbytrail.com/forums/showthr...1037#post81037

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Nope, that's not correct either. There were numerous threads, before the fact, where several people tried to point out that Invasor was a serious threat to Bernardini. No matter what was said, getting through to some of the Bernardini people was futile. They acted like they knew it all. To use your words, "they tried to sound like geniuses".

Here is an example.

http://derbytrail.com/forums/showthr...1037#post81037

As usual, you miss the point. All I said was that I didn't see Zeigler stating before the race that Bernardini shouldn't be even money and anyone who singles him is crazy, as she was saying afterwards.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

As usual, you miss the point. All I said was that I didn't see Zeigler stating before the race that Bernardini shouldn't be even money and anyone who singles him is crazy, as she was saying afterwards.

Missed the point? Hardly.

Over and over you were quick to characterize someone with the label "postrace genius", without even considering what may have been said pre-race. examples;
"I just can't stand when people try to sound like geniuses after the fact" and
"The point is it's much easier to ridicule those who bet Bernardini to even money and singled him after he loses" and "Ah yes, another postrace genius."

I was trying to point out to you that much was said pre-race, and that you might want to consider that before jumping to more conclusions.

[Pointg5]

Sounds like the Bernardini fans can dish it, but not take it...

Do you know how many threads we would see if he won that would say how stupid the doubters were...

There were quotes like these:

He's here, the horse we have been all waiting for and some don't appreciate him...

He's going to get his Coronation...

and multiple quotes of arrogance of how he easily would win the BCC...

He didn't and now the people who questioned him are right, that's okay, this game changes we could all be wrong about the next thing, but if we are arrogant enough to say some of the things said about Bernardini, we should get some ribbing as well...I think he's a very good horse, not great or one of the greats, but very good and I think I overvalued him, I gave him about a 75%-80% chance of winning and that was probably too high, but it more than worked out for me...

Get over it and say you were wrong, dead wrong, in fact you couldn't have been more wrong, but I doubt we'll see it...

And congrats to Arljim, he's one that I remember for a long time saying how good Invasior was....

Originally Posted by Pointg5

Sounds like the Bernardini fans can dish it, but not take it...

Do you know how many threads we would see if he won that would say how stupid the doubters were...

There were quotes like these:

He's here, the horse we have been all waiting for and some don't appreciate him...

He's going to get his Coronation...

and multiple quotes of arrogance of how he easily would win the BCC...

He didn't and now the people who questioned him are right, that's okay, this game changes we could all be wrong about the next thing, but if we are arrogant enough to say some of the things said about Bernardini, we should get some ribbing as well...I think he's a very good horse, not great or one of the greats, but very good and I think I overvalued him, I gave him about a 75%-80% chance of winning and that was probably too high, but it more than worked out for me...

Get over it and say you were wrong, dead wrong, in fact you couldn't have been more wrong, but I doubt we'll see it...

And congrats to Arljim, he's one that I remember for a long time saying how good Invasior was....

Your first point is well taken and absolutely the truth.
Ateam dished it out just fine after Ghostzapper destroyed his rivals. He deserved to. Ateam was certain no distance would stop him long before he even went two turns. Thats cool, you call the shot you get to talk smack.
But looks like he can't take it so well, and a few others either. Pathetic that they can talk smack for 3 or 4 months and post pictures, whatever, and then act indignant when he loses.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

And congrats to Arljim, he's one that I remember for a long time saying how good Invasior was....

Well thanks but I wasn't the only one. There were several others that thought that the enormous accolades about Bernardini being the best we've seen in ages were slightly premature. I never disliked the horse and feel that he is immensely talented. My main point was that Invasor was being overlooked and under-rated.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Well thanks but I wasn't the only one. There were several others that thought that the enormous accolades about Bernardini being the best we've seen in ages were slightly premature. I never disliked the horse and feel that he is immensely talented. My main point was that Invasor was being overlooked and under-rated.

Agree with everything you said here Jim.
A certain clique acted as if anyone who didn't agree that Bernadini was the best horse since Secretariat was a complete idiot and told those folks so.
I respect smack talking, and lots is in good fun. But when you talk the smack and the horse gets beat you have to offer props, thats why we post here and wage these mini battles. It ruins the fun when one side who talked the smack won't offer props to the others afterwards even when they were dead wrong.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

My main point was that Invasor was being overlooked and under-rated.

I wish I would have been here this summer -- as we would likely have been best buddies on that bandwagon. That's been my key horse since he came to America -- from keying him in the Special/Preakness double to singling him on top of the trifecta on Saturday -- he's taken great care of me and in every way he looked to be at least Bernardini's equal at six times the price.

What a gift.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

And congrats to Arljim, he's one that I remember for a long time saying how good Invasior was....

I just remembered the person who should get the most props regarding Invasor is our Brazilian friend FMC123412. Way back before his first NA start in May, he posted back on ESPN that this horse was a phenom down south and that we should take a good look at him. This was before the Pimlico Special. I took a look and bet him that day at 6:1 and I was impressed so I followed him ever since.

FMC, good job! Your horse has now conquered two continents.

Who knows, in March it could become three continents.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I just remembered the person who should get the most props regarding Invasor is our Brazilian friend FMC123412. Way back before his first NA start in May, he posted back on ESPN that this horse was a phenom down south and that we should take a good look at him. This was before the Pimlico Special. I took a look and bet him that day at 6:1 and I was impressed so I followed him ever since.

FMC, good job! Your horse has now conquered two continents.

Who knows, in March it could become three continents.

That's true FMC is a valued person on this board, always has good info...

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Missed the point? Hardly.

Over and over you were quick to characterize someone with the label "postrace genius", without even considering what may have been said pre-race. examples;
"I just can't stand when people try to sound like geniuses after the fact" and
"The point is it's much easier to ridicule those who bet Bernardini to even money and singled him after he loses" and "Ah yes, another postrace genius."

I was trying to point out to you that much was said pre-race, and that you might want to consider that before jumping to more conclusions.

"Over and over"? Um, okay. I was talking specifically to Zeig about specifically her comment. There was no need for you to butt in with your link that proved nothing. Show me where I said "There was no one who liked Invasor before the race." My statement was "The point is it's much easier to ridicule those who bet Bernardini to even money and singled him after he loses" and that holds validity no matter what link you pull out, so back up.

And all of this "Bernardini fans can dish it but not take it" bull****.. Give me a break. You want to say Invasor's a better horse? Fine with me. I personally am not going to say that based on one meeting and a one length difference, but if you want to say it, that's not outlandish. You want to say Bernardini was overrated? Cool. Of course he was.. Like dalakhani said, he would've had to win by 10+ NOT to be considered overrated (and for the record, it was mainly the media crowd that was overrating him in order to get people to watch). But to say he lost because of a "lack of heart" or to write him off as a total piece of **** is where I step in. All of that is silly.

By the way, you have no right to ever say a discouraging word about Bernardini if you ever hyped up Lava Man. None. The way things sound around here, you'd swear Bernardini ran last and Lava Man skipped the race. Lava Man was just as hyped earlier in the year as Bernardini was recently, and yet the people who immediately sang the praises of Lava Man's supposed brilliance get no flak whatsoever. It's a ridiculous double standard and I'm tired of it.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

"Over and over"? Um, okay. I was talking specifically to Zeig about specifically her comment. There was no need for you to butt in with your link that proved nothing. Show me where I said "There was no one who liked Invasor before the race." My statement was "The point is it's much easier to ridicule those who bet Bernardini to even money and singled him after he loses" and that holds validity no matter what link you pull out, so back up.

And all of this "Bernardini fans can dish it but not take it" bull****.. Give me a break. You want to say Invasor's a better horse? Fine with me. I personally am not going to say that based on one meeting and a one length difference, but if you want to say it, that's not outlandish. You want to say Bernardini was overrated? Cool. Of course he was.. Like dalakhani said, he would've had to win by 10+ NOT to be considered overrated (and for the record, it was mainly the media crowd that was overrating him in order to get people to watch). But to say he lost because of a "lack of heart" or to write him off as a total piece of **** is where I step in. All of that is silly.

By the way, you have no right to ever say a discouraging word about Bernardini if you ever hyped up Lava Man. None. The way things sound around here, you'd swear Bernardini ran last and Lava Man skipped the race. Lava Man was just as hyped earlier in the year as Bernardini was recently, and yet the people who immediately sang the praises of Lava Man's supposed brilliance get no flak whatsoever. It's a ridiculous double standard and I'm tired of it.

Maybe your statement was valid but shouldn't it have been directed to someone that had made post race judgements? Zeig didn't, so who was it directed towards?

In my opinion your continued hot comments make you the poster-child for the "Bernardini fans can dish it but not take it" accusations. That was not an accusation I brought up but you addressed it to me so I responded.

I've never hyped Lava Man for the Classic. Many people liked him but to me he was a throwout and yes I posted that pre-race.

Maybe you're missing the point. I don't see anyone writing off Bernardini as total piece of ****. In my mind this exercise has been mainly about elevating
Invasor to the status he belongs as well as being a little more realistic about how good Bernardini was.

Frankly you seem to be still steaming about what happened. In my opinion some of your comments on this thread seem rather bellicose for a "super moderator".

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Frankly you seem to be still steaming about what happened. In my opinion some of your comments on this thread seem rather bellicose for a "super moderator".

Okay. So because I'm a moderator, I'm not allowed to stand up for a horse getting a ridiculous amount of bashing, most of it being nothing more than out and out hatred?

Listen dude. You make ridiculous statements and I'm going to respond accordingly. I'm not going to initiate any trouble on here, but please don't expect that, just because I'm a moderator, I'm going to let anyone say whatever they want without any response. If you're respectful, I'll treat you with respect, but if you're obnoxious and boisterous and inflammatory, I'm taking off the gloves too, moderator or no moderator.

You had a problem with what I said? Awesome. You're one of the few, so I'm not too worried about how you feel.

"Frankly," you seem to be way too gassed for picking Invasor and getting respect from Oracle, but that's just my opinion.