Ok I Have Had Enough

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Dude you aren't making any sense, seriously, there is no correlation to what you are saying. You aren't making any sense.

Bellamy Road is great. Landaluce is great. Bernardini needed to pass a gutcheck to be great.

No inconsistency? Of course, maybe you are just too DUMB to see it.

Carry on.

[2MinsToPost]

I am sorry I vented. Everything went downhill after that. My bag.

To be honest, this thread is a "throw a bag of popcorn in the microwave oven and crack open a beer" type of thread though

[1st_Saturday_in_May]

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

I am sorry I vented. Everything went downhill after that. My bag.

To be honest, this thread is a "throw a bag of popcorn in the microwave oven and crack open a beer" type of thread though

LOL Curt, its cool. Really funny thread to read. Personally I'll never understand the enjoyment of seeing a horse lose, especially when his winning could have been very good for horse racing. Then again the Sheikhs retired him anyway, so....

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by 1st_Saturday_in_May

LOL Curt, its cool. Really funny thread to read. Personally I'll never understand the enjoyment of seeing a horse lose, especially when his winning could have been very good for horse racing.

this I don't understand.

why would it have been very good for horse racing?

why is racing worse off that Invasor won?

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

this I don't understand.

why would it have been very good for horse racing?

why is racing worse off that Invasor won?

Thats a great question, for which they will have no answer.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I give full props to Invasor. He beat Bernie fair and square. But one thing that I'm guilty of and many of you are gulity of is putting too much emphasis on one race. If these two horses faced each other again in a small field in New York next month, I would not be surprised if Bernie turned the tables on him. How many times have we seen "Horse A" beat "Horse B", but then when they face each other again, "Horse B" beats "Horse A".

There are so many factors. Invasor may have moved up on the surface at Churchill. Who knows? Would Invasor beat Bernie in a 5 horse field at Aqueduct next month? I don't know.

It's really easy to get lose confidence in a horse when they lose, but the truth of the matter is that most great horses have lost races. There are some horses that retire undefeated but not too many. Even Secretariat lost a few races. I think he had a couple of medicore 3rd place finishes.

Anyway, all of that being said, I don't think that Bernardini is quite as good as many of us thought. But on the other hand, one race doesn't prove that much. If you judge Invasor on his nose victory over Sun King, he doesn't look like anything special.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I give full props to Invasor. He beat Bernie fair and square. But one thing that I'm guilty of and many of you are gulity of is putting too much emphasis on one race. If these two horses faced each other again in a small field in New York next month, I would not be surprised if Bernie turned the tables on him. How many times have we seen "Horse A" beat "Horse B", but then when they face each other again, "Horse B" beats "Horse A".

There are so many factors. Invasor may have moved up on the surface at Churchill. Who knows? Could Invasor beat Bernie in a 5 horse field at Aqueduct next month? I don't know.

I think it's a fair question that we'll never know the answer to. I think in one turn races in NY that Bernardini could very easily have turned the tables. For sure in races up to 9F the outcome could very well have been in doubt. In longer two turn races I give the edge to Invasor. I think one of Invasors strengths is that he seems to get better with added distance. He has a lot of stamina. In his 12F Group 1 race in Uruguay he faced 12 horses and won easily by more than six lengths.

[1st_Saturday_in_May]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

this I don't understand.

why would it have been very good for horse racing?

why is racing worse off that Invasor won?

Its all pretty much a moot point since he was retired, but all casual sports fans have been hearing about in the last week or two is "Bernardini, Bernardini, Bernardini". Hell, some of my boys at college were asking me about him and they dont know the difference between a furlong and a frontrunner. Never have watched horse racing but wanted to see this horse. They watched just to see this horse win. I mean, I personally dont care, but when you're advertising a race to be Bernardini v. Lava Man and one finishes 2nd and the other well up the track, that cant be good. Would Bernardini winning have brought more fans to the game? Maybe. Would his retirement today have made the same fans so 'oh, well, nevermind then'? Probably. Theres something to be said for an upset, but there's also something to be said for a anima/person/whatever considered to be atop their trade/sport/whatever to shine on the biggest day...

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by 1st_Saturday_in_May

Its all pretty much a moot point since he was retired, but all casual sports fans have been hearing about in the last week or two is "Bernardini, Bernardini, Bernardini". Hell, some of my boys at college were asking me about him and they dont know the difference between a furlong and a frontrunner. Never have watched horse racing but wanted to see this horse. I mean, I personally dont care, but when you're advertising a race to be Bernardini v. Lava Man and one finishes 2nd and the other well up the track, that cant be good. Would Bernardini winning have brought more fans to the game? Maybe. Would his retirement today have made the same fans so 'oh, well, nevermind then'? Probably...

So you're saying that these casual fans heard all the hype, tuned in, and then were totally disillusioned because one of the hyped horses finished second? If they were then these were not fans to be counted on for the long term anyway.

Since you brought it up, I didn't understand the hype that this was some type of showdown between Bernardini and Lava Man. What about the rest of the field and in particular Invasor? I really don't know why Invasor wasn't, and still isn't a hyped horse. He is tough and consistently awesome.

[Danzig]

everyone i work with knows i'm a fan....i didn't have one question about it today at work.
like i said the other day, isn't that why we come here?? talking about horses to virtual strangers, cause no one else knows or cares about it....
bernardini winning or losing saturday didn't mean anything long term for this sport. it doesn't matter one bit who wins each race. the only affect bernardini will have long term on horse racing is whether he's a success at stud or not.

[1st_Saturday_in_May]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

So you're saying that these casual fans heard all the hype, tuned in, and then were totally disillusioned because one of the hyped horses finished second? If they were then these were not fans to be counted on for the long term anyway.

Since you brought it up, I didn't understand the hype that this was some type of showdown between Bernardini and Lava Man. What about the rest of the field and in particular Invasor? I really don't know why Invasor wasn't, and still isn't a hyped horse. He is tough and consistently awesome.

Jim, did you see the poster that they (ESPN? BC? NTRA?) put out? It pretty much said screw Invasor, Sun King, etc. Its all about those two. Thats where I took the Lava Man/Bernardini thing from...

http://www.bloodhorse.com/pdf/bc_man...oster_2006.pdf

Also, I do think that seeing Bernardini win impressively would have been better than seeing him run 2nd. I think he ran a great second, but to some - esecially non sports fans - 2nd, no matter how good/bad it is, is just a losing effort. I do think that the fans that he could have attracted woudl have been s you said people not to be counted on, but you never know. I'd rather have the fans for a couple of months than not at all. Its not provable that he'd have indeed brought in more fans but that's just how I feel. Tons of individual horses have brought fans to the game - Funny Cide brought a ton in I think (he got me hooked), Smarty Jones, Point Given was the one who first got me interested. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say that most people on here could pinpoint one of the 'greats' that brought them in - Slew, Affirmed, Secretariat, etc. Not all, but quite a few. I'm not comparing Bernardini to those, because he isnt, but wouldnt it have been great if he was? THen again, wouldnt it have been great if he had no nuts? LOL

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

mike in all fairness to you..you do tend to talk bad about everybody..dutrow /steve /ect ect..wishing cancer on his kids.on albertanis .at the top of your lungs.....saying frankle would sell his mother ect...you are put up with ,,thats it..no one really likes your ass..that includes the one guy you tout about knowing.......your an embaressment to this site and yourself...im sorry steve couldent say it...and he wont so i did...

By the way Ateam, I think what happened with this horse is that his backers were just so over the top obnoxious that people were hating his fans, not the horse.
Lets face it, he was one of the most talented horses in years. Besides, how do you hate a horse? I mean I can see hating on the owner or trainer, but not a horse.
You go back and read some of the ****, and the way that those who questioned his coronation as the best since Bid were treated when voicing concerns, and you will see why some people just flat out got sick of hearing it.
The arrogance shown by his fans was incredible.
You have to expect some **** back at you, thats how the game is played.
As far as the horse goes? Well, its a shame he won't run at age 4, maybe he would joined the elites.

Whose fault is it that Bernardini never gets looked in the eye, when Lava Man is life and death to beat the vaunted Brother Derek, Magnum, Super Frolic triumverate over and over again? Should Bernardini slow down and look horses in the eye like Seabiscuit? It's hilarious. You're criticizing him for being too fast. I'm sure if Bernardini had "looked in the eye" of Wanderin Boy or Bluegrass Cat or Sweetnorthernsaint and "fought to win," you'd all be praising him, right? Bull****. Everyone would be on their "he struggled to win" high horse. All this ****ing west coast horse does is beat up on the same tired nags all year long, and you want to give him more credit because he's a "fighter"? How about he's just slower than Bernardini? You really think Bernardini would've had to be urged to beat Brother Derek by 2 1/4?

Those were your words Ateam, I can cut and paste also.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Whose fault is it that Bernardini never gets looked in the eye, when Lava Man is life and death to beat the vaunted Brother Derek, Magnum, Super Frolic triumverate over and over again? Should Bernardini slow down and look horses in the eye like Seabiscuit? It's hilarious. You're criticizing him for being too fast. I'm sure if Bernardini had "looked in the eye" of Wanderin Boy or Bluegrass Cat or Sweetnorthernsaint and "fought to win," you'd all be praising him, right? Bull****. Everyone would be on their "he struggled to win" high horse. All this ****ing west coast horse does is beat up on the same tired nags all year long, and you want to give him more credit because he's a "fighter"? How about he's just slower than Bernardini? You really think Bernardini would've had to be urged to beat Brother Derek by 2 1/4?

Those were your words Ateam, I can cut and paste also.

You're right. You can cut and paste. Now all you need is a point to argue, and you'll be set.

Originally Posted by oracle80

You really think saying that my favorite horse ever(ghostzapper) would have urinated on him is the equivalent to wanting to poison a horse?
This is worse than last year when you said St Liam would lose and then just disappeared off the old board, without owning up to the criticism.
Grow up, I respect you but not this bull****. Your horse lost, take it like a man.

Ease up there slim. I'm not sure if you noticed, but I left the old board a week before the BC, and it had nothing to do with racing. I decided that I didn't like how much some of the bull**** that was said on there was bothering me, so I pretty much stepped back and took a reality check. I'd say this is something you should've done a long time ago, but I think you've always been this obnoxious.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

I'm sure if the horse had won by 10, you'd still be criticizing anyone who bet him at even money or singled him.


and if a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass every time he hopped.


thing is, he didn't win by ten..so what's the point?

The point is it's much easier to ridicule those who bet Bernardini to even money and singled him after he loses.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

You're right. You can cut and paste. Now all you need is a point to argue, and you'll be set.



Ease up there slim. I'm not sure if you noticed, but I left the old board a week before the BC, and it had nothing to do with racing. I decided that I didn't like how much some of the bull**** that was said on there was bothering me, so I pretty much stepped back and took a reality check. I'd say this is something you should've done a long time ago, but I think you've always been this obnoxious.



The point is it's much easier to ridicule those who bet Bernardini to even money and singled him after he loses.

he was set at even money on the morning line, which blew my mind. i mean, this wasn't the jcgc, this was the bcc! and i said all along not to single him, i chose ouija to single--so it's not like i'm dog piling on now.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

he was set at even money on the morning line, which blew my mind. i mean, this wasn't the jcgc, this was the bcc! and i said all along not to single him, i chose ouija to single--so it's not like i'm dog piling on now.

Well then, I have to say I didn't see you saying any of that before the race, but I'll take your word for it, and congratulations, you were right.

I just can't stand when people try to sound like geniuses after the fact.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

You're right. You can cut and paste. Now all you need is a point to argue, and you'll be set.



Ease up there slim. I'm not sure if you noticed, but I left the old board a week before the BC, and it had nothing to do with racing. I decided that I didn't like how much some of the bull**** that was said on there was bothering me, so I pretty much stepped back and took a reality check. I'd say this is something you should've done a long time ago, but I think you've always been this obnoxious.



The point is it's much easier to ridicule those who bet Bernardini to even money and singled him after he loses.

Noone is talking about betting Ateam.
At least I'm not. I don't think his odds had much to do with anything really.
And yeah he was great, I said it at least 3 times today on various threads. Its just that if you went back and read some of the **** that you and others posted to people who had doubts, you'd see what the deal was here.
Lets face it, you are now batting .500 on these deals. I don't forget anything. You were the original talk **** king on GZ, when others had doubts. And you were one obnoxious dude after he kicked ass in the BCC, you got your licks in on everyone and deservedly so. You called the shot, and you got the spoils. This time you didn't, and I expected you to suck up and take it like a man.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Noone is talking about betting Ateam.
At least I'm not. I don't think his odds had much to do with anything really.
And yeah he was great, I said it at least 3 times today on various threads. Its just that if you went back and read some of the **** that you and others posted to people who had doubts, you'd see what the deal was here.
Lets face it, you are now batting .500 on these deals. I don't forget anything. You were the original talk **** king on GZ, when others had doubts. And you were one obnoxious dude after he kicked ass in the BCC, you got your licks in on everyone and deservedly so. You called the shot, and you got the spoils. This time you didn't, and I expected you to suck up and take it like a man.

And what about you? Youve been sucking on Circular Quay's horse C o c k since the summer. He was supposed to be the next coming according to you and he wasnt very close to the winner on BC day. I heard you and a bunch of his fans talking all this mess about CQ. What happened to him?

All I was ever saying is it is tough to run in large fields with a bunch of good horses. Bernardini ran a very good race and I now have more respect for such a talented 3 year old. He faced a large fairly tough field and responded admirably. People just dont understand that a horse does not necessarily have to win to earn respect. Smarty Jones impressed me more in the Belmont than any other race I saw him run. That race put him in a special category. But of course a horse has to win... for some people. Mineshaft running a fantastic race against Perfect Drift also put him in a new category for me. These horses just did not give in, they gave everything they had. That is one of the things that defines a great animal for me.

Too bad we wont have the pleasure of watching him run again. I think with a better strategy, a little maturity, and an understanding that this was not the same type of field, Bernardini could indeed win a tough race like he just lost. He could have been one of the great ones, no doubt about that. Only 3 years old. Its really sad for me.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pgardn

All I was ever saying is it is tough to run in large fields with a bunch of good horses. Bernardini ran a very good race and I now have more respect for such a talented 3 year old. He faced a large fairly tough field and responded admirably. People just dont understand that a horse does not necessarily have to win to earn respect. Smarty Jones impressed me more in the Belmont than any other race I saw him run. That race put him in a special category. But of course a horse has to win... for some people. Mineshaft running a fantastic race against Perfect Drift also put him in a new category for me. These horses just did not give in, they gave everything they had. That is one of the things that defines a great animal for me.

Too bad we wont have the pleasure of watching him run again. I think with a better strategy, a little maturity, and an understanding that this was not the same type of field, Bernardini could indeed win a tough race like he just lost. He could have been one of the great ones, no doubt about that. Only 3 years old. Its really sad for me.

many a horse has gained more respect in defeat than some have with a win! that was demonstrated so often over the years with true handicapping races. sad that those have gone by the wayside, everyone so scared of losing anymore, regardless of how the horse looks in defeat.

i think i'm coming across this evening as being irritated by bernardini...fact is i'm pissed that he won't be back. that we have only have a handful of races from him--he's through. that run in the half dark the other day was it. and THAT stinks. i hope i never see the words 'sheik mo' and 'sportsman' together again.