Lasix enhances performance

[cmorioles]

I'm sure there is lots of stuff I don't know. It doesn't mean I shouldn't know this, silly argument.

Let me ask you, can you point me to the PPs of a few of these California horses where they are listed as not having Lasix for 6 months?

[Honu]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I'm sure there is lots of stuff I don't know. It doesn't mean I shouldn't know this, silly argument.

Let me ask you, can you point me to the PPs of a few of these California horses where they are listed as not having Lasix for 6 months?

If you want to know you do the research....Im just telling you what the rule is and the reason I know was because I asked Dr Blea. The reason for my question is because there is a horse in our barn that was being considered not to run on Lasix.

[Indian Charlie]

You are doing it again Orioles.

Remember my Zenyatta fan analogy.

[clambeau]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

You are doing it again Orioles.

Remember my Zenyatta fan analogy.

Ah, the world's expert is here.....There goes the neighborhood

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by clambeau

Ah, the world's expert is here.....There goes the neighborhood

This coming from a pharmacist that suffers from over confidence in their knowledge based on having too much education.

You do realize you keep missing the point that Orioles has been making about Lasix, right?

The point being that lasix imparts an edge to racehorses that has nothing to do with stopping bleeding into the lungs.

That was a nice dodge on your part, pointing out that humans and horses are both mammals! Freaking brilliant!!!

I am utterly wowed by your inability to comprehend a very basic concept. Or, maybe comprehend is the wrong term. Perhaps you wanted to show off your 'expertise' here by announcing that you are a pharmacist, and the only way you could do that was by chiming in with a total non sequitur.

Now go look up the meaning of non sequitur with your beloved Google search engine.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

You do realize you keep missing the point that Orioles has been making about Lasix, right?

The point being that lasix imparts an edge to racehorses that has nothing to do with stopping bleeding into the lungs.

He and others don't want to see the point.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

He and others don't want to see the point.

Yes. They have too much emotionally invested in their belief systems to listen to anything that challenges, or threatens, said belief system.

[docicu3]

Good to see you IC.....hope the world is treating you well.

A couple of small points, you already know, I thought might add to what's been said above....

1) Lasix is a sulfur containing diuretic far more similar to Bumex, which is another sulfur containing loop diuretic, than Premarin which is a conjugated estrogen or hormone commonly used in gynecology to limit menstral bleeding by a whole different mechanism. I guess the common thread is the limiting of bleeding to avoid the dreaded 3rd time bleed and a horses forced retirement.

Lasix first works by a) increasing the capacitance of any lung or making more small pipes or cappilaries while holding the same amount of blood in pulmonary circulation, thus lowering pressure in the horse's or human's lungs.

If given IV these effects take place in 20 minutes and last for six hours hence the name. The second effect or b) is to abolish the electrical/osmotic gradient in the kidney cell or nephron responsible for holding on to free water when inhibited a triggering of a fairly massive diuresis of very dilute urine will follow.

It blows my mind that the CHRB compares Lasix to premarin by substitution without making the public aware as Premarin is no where near as effective as a diuretic ..........very very bizarre!!

The metabolic alkalosis it causes does give a horse an advantage racing in that it takes longer and further in a race for a lasix horse to become acidotic or uncomfortable in competition which is another way of saying for it to develop a lactic acidosis because for some period it is neutralizing the acid generated in competition. Further considerations pertaining to aerobic or anaerobic metabolism add more or less to the mechanism above......phew!!

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by docicu3

Good to see you IC.....hope the world is treating you well.

A couple of small points, you already know, I thought might add to what's been said above....

1) Lasix is a sulfur containing diuretic far more similar to Bumex, which is another sulfur containing loop diuretic, than Premarin which is a conjugated estrogen or hormone commonly used in gynecology to limit menstral bleeding by a whole different mechanism. I guess the common thread is the limiting of bleeding to avoid the dreaded 3rd time bleed and a horses forced retirement.

Lasix first works by a) increasing the capacitance of any lung or making more small pipes or cappilaries while holding the same amount of blood in pulmonary circulation, thus lowering pressure in the horse's or human's lungs.

If given IV these effects take place in 20 minutes and last for six hours hence the name. The second effect or b) is to abolish the electrical/osmotic gradient in the kidney cell or nephron responsible for holding on to free water when inhibited a triggering of a fairly massive diuresis of very dilute urine will follow.

It blows my mind that the CHRB compares Lasix to premarin by substitution without making the public aware as Premarin is no where near as effective as a diuretic ..........very very bizarre!!

The metabolic alkalosis it causes does give a horse an advantage racing in that it takes longer and further in a race for a lasix horse to become acidotic or uncomfortable in competition which is another way of saying for it to develop a lactic acidosis because for some period it is neutralizing the acid generated in competition. Further considerations pertaining to aerobic or anaerobic metabolism add more or less to the mechanism above......phew!!

Hey man, it's been awhile. Haven't seen you around here much lately.

You are one of the only doctors I've ever known (albeit online in this case) that doesn't have an overly inflated sense of self-importance.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by docicu3

Good to see you IC.....hope the world is treating you well.

A couple of small points, you already know, I thought might add to what's been said above....

1) Lasix is a sulfur containing diuretic far more similar to Bumex, which is another sulfur containing loop diuretic, than Premarin which is a conjugated estrogen or hormone commonly used in gynecology to limit menstral bleeding by a whole different mechanism. I guess the common thread is the limiting of bleeding to avoid the dreaded 3rd time bleed and a horses forced retirement.

Lasix first works by a) increasing the capacitance of any lung or making more small pipes or cappilaries while holding the same amount of blood in pulmonary circulation, thus lowering pressure in the horse's or human's lungs.

If given IV these effects take place in 20 minutes and last for six hours hence the name. The second effect or b) is to abolish the electrical/osmotic gradient in the kidney cell or nephron responsible for holding on to free water when inhibited a triggering of a fairly massive diuresis of very dilute urine will follow.

It blows my mind that the CHRB compares Lasix to premarin by substitution without making the public aware as Premarin is no where near as effective as a diuretic ..........very very bizarre!!

The metabolic alkalosis it causes does give a horse an advantage racing in that it takes longer and further in a race for a lasix horse to become acidotic or uncomfortable in competition which is another way of saying for it to develop a lactic acidosis because for some period it is neutralizing the acid generated in competition. Further considerations pertaining to aerobic or anaerobic metabolism add more or less to the mechanism above......phew!!

I don't think this is true. No one I asked about this has ever heard of this being the case in CA or anywhere else.

I'm still trying to understand how something that is available to all participants creates a situation where someone has an advantage?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by docicu3

Good to see you IC.....hope the world is treating you well.

A couple of small points, you already know, I thought might add to what's been said above....

1) Lasix is a sulfur containing diuretic far more similar to Bumex, which is another sulfur containing loop diuretic, than Premarin which is a conjugated estrogen or hormone commonly used in gynecology to limit menstral bleeding by a whole different mechanism. I guess the common thread is the limiting of bleeding to avoid the dreaded 3rd time bleed and a horses forced retirement.

Lasix first works by a) increasing the capacitance of any lung or making more small pipes or cappilaries while holding the same amount of blood in pulmonary circulation, thus lowering pressure in the horse's or human's lungs.

If given IV these effects take place in 20 minutes and last for six hours hence the name. The second effect or b) is to abolish the electrical/osmotic gradient in the kidney cell or nephron responsible for holding on to free water when inhibited a triggering of a fairly massive diuresis of very dilute urine will follow.

It blows my mind that the CHRB compares Lasix to premarin by substitution without making the public aware as Premarin is no where near as effective as a diuretic ..........very very bizarre!!

The metabolic alkalosis it causes does give a horse an advantage racing in that it takes longer and further in a race for a lasix horse to become acidotic or uncomfortable in competition which is another way of saying for it to develop a lactic acidosis because for some period it is neutralizing the acid generated in competition. Further considerations pertaining to aerobic or anaerobic metabolism add more or less to the mechanism above......phew!!

You are going to discuss this with Dr Riot, the hack veterinarian who speaks on behalf of all industry. If she deems your thoughts valid we can have Rollo google your findings for validation.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Honu

If you want to know you do the research....Im just telling you what the rule is and the reason I know was because I asked Dr Blea. The reason for my question is because there is a horse in our barn that was being considered not to run on Lasix.

Nobody was arguing the rule, just that it is not only keeping information from horseplayers, it is outright deceptive.