NYTHA Lasix Primer & Letter to NYS RWB

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Danzig

try passing it off on people outside the game...what, they're suddenly going to care?
if by some strange chance someone outside the game asks me why horses are given lasix, i'll explain that horses can hemorrage due to fluid in the lungs while exerting themselves, and lasix prevents that.
or do you think these suddenly interested people aren't going to understand that? or as the article i posted the other day said would you rather withold hay and water for 24-48 hours and explain why that's ok?

and can you please answer if there is a way to tell if/when a horse can bleed? i would like to know. obviously if you can know when it would happen, you could then know who to give it to.
or are you ignoring the question because the answer is you can't ever tell until it happens?

Yes, they will care, when breakdowns are rampant and drug use is widespread. Oh, they will care, at least long enough to ruin the game. You can count on that.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Yes, they will care, when breakdowns are rampant and drug use is widespread. Oh, they will care, at least long enough to ruin the game. You can count on that.

er, according to some, breakdowns are already rampant, and drug use is widespread.
i bet many of the over 100k on hand may 5 in churchill knew nothing about o'neills several milkshaking violations, or other issues with racing officials. they just cared about having a good time.
i've got race photos in my office. i'll let you know the first time someone asks me about drugs. had them up for years, hasn't happened yet.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Danzig

er, according to some, breakdowns are already rampant, and drug use is widespread.

I know they are, and the sport is getting more and more negative publicity put on it as slots become more prevalent. When the negatives of racing are featured in the New York Times, whether you like the articles or not, things aren't going well.

You think politicians aren't going to try to find every reason they can to kick racing to the curb and keep every slots dollar? Please. It is already happening in many places. If you think the "every horse needs drugs so they don't bleed" defense is going to help one iota, you are sadly mistaken.

The biggest problem horse racing has, and has always had as far as I can tell, is that the sport lives in the present with no foresight whatsoever. Almost every decision that is ever made is a short term patch and usually proved to have negative implications going forward. Having every horse receiving drugs before racing is not going to shine a good light on the sport when it needs it. We can argue until the next millennium if it should be seen as a negative, but it will be perceived that way no matter how many vets say otherwise. You can book that.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I know they are, and the sport is getting more and more negative publicity put on it as slots become more prevalent. When the negatives of racing are featured in the New York Times, whether you like the articles or not, things aren't going well.

You think politicians aren't going to try to find every reason they can to kick racing to the curb and keep every slots dollar? Please. It is already happening in many places. If you think the "every horse needs drugs so they don't bleed" defense is going to help one iota, you are sadly mistaken.

The biggest problem horse racing has, and has always had as far as I can tell, is that the sport lives in the present with no foresight whatsoever. Almost every decision that is ever made is a short term patch and usually proved to have negative implications going forward. Having every horse receiving drugs before racing is not going to shine a good light on the sport when it needs it. We can argue until the next millennium if it should be seen as a negative, but it will be perceived that way no matter how many vets say otherwise. You can book that.

Sounds to me this is exactly the reason Lasix should not be banned. This would be a short term patch that doesn't even correlate to the objectives it seeks to cure.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by pointman

Sounds to me this is exactly the reason Lasix should not be banned. This would be a short term patch that doesn't even correlate to the objectives it seeks to cure.

Unless, of course, you include the very next sentence I wrote.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Unless, of course, you include the very next sentence I wrote.

I guess I have missed all the public outrage over the regulated use of Lasix in racehorses.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Unless, of course, you include the very next sentence I wrote.

I read it. You want to ban a drug that clearly helps race horses. And you're willing to pretend it does not help them, in the face of overwhelming evidence it does.

If we are going to help race horses, banning a drug that is proven to help them is moronic beyond belief. Period.

You and the "ban lasix" crowd have zero factual support for the false contentions that have been made about lasix, in support of the desire for a ban. This is dangerous to the sport. To it's very existence. The lying, the false contentions, the ignoring of real drug problems. Unbelievable.

We. Know. Better. The public can read Joe Drape, but the public can also learn better, as the information is right there at their fingertips. It can't be covered up, or hidden, or bullied into the background.

[RolloTomasi]

Does anyone know why administering sodium bicarbonate via nasogastric tube within 24 hours of a race is illegal?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

I read it. You want to ban a drug that clearly helps race horses. And you're willing to pretend it does not help them, in the face of overwhelming evidence it does.

If we are going to help race horses, banning a drug that is proven to help them is moronic beyond belief. Period.

You and the "ban lasix" crowd have zero factual support for the false contentions that have been made about lasix, in support of the desire for a ban. This is dangerous to the sport. To it's very existence. The lying, the false contentions, the ignoring of real drug problems. Unbelievable.

We. Know. Better. The public can read Joe Drape, but the public can also learn better, as the information is right there at their fingertips. It can't be covered up, or hidden, or bullied into the background.

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting a drug free sport. Horsemen took advantage of Lasix rules to the point the drug is overused, now they will have to suffer the consequences. If horses truly need drugs to race, we probably shouldn't have horse racing. Are there worse problems in racing? Of course there are. I don't have all the answers. But only in racing would drugging an animal every time it competes be passed off as "caring about horses".

I'm out.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Yes, they will care, when breakdowns are rampant and drug use is widespread. Oh, they will care, at least long enough to ruin the game. You can count on that.

Lasix use has zero to do with breakdowns and breakdowns are hardly rampant. As I said before the way lasix is protrayed is far worse than any supposed negative effects.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Lasix use has zero to do with breakdowns and breakdowns are hardly rampant. As I said before the way lasix is protrayed is far worse than any supposed negative effects.

Well, in the past decade we had around 12 tracks change surfaces because they were "safer". If breakdowns aren't an issue, why the change? We also had the recent rash of breakdowns in New York. We have similar happening every day around the country. The difference is not many people care about what is happening at Penn National or Prairie Meadows or Emerald Downs...yet.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Well, in the past decade we had around 12 tracks change surfaces because they were "safer". If breakdowns aren't an issue, why the change? We also had the recent rash of breakdowns in New York. We have similar happening every day around the country. The difference is not many people care about what is happening at Penn National or Prairie Meadows or Emerald Downs...yet.

Do you really think that tracks went to synthetic surfaces because of horses? C'mon get real. They wanted a "maintenance free" surface to save them money. I know for a fact that 2 of the tracks that hold TC races have had their track maintenance budgets cut since the advent of synthetic surfaces. There is no evidence that there is a rash of breakdowns everyday around the country. In fact there isnt evidence that there are more breakdowns now than 20 years ago since there is very little data from then but of course there is plenty of conjecture. You see the little issue that people seem to forget is that it wasnt so long ago that races werent available on tv or at simulcasting centers or on the internet. Charts werent readily available except for your local tracks. So of course it seems like less was happening them because you had so little information as compared to now.

Racing does a horrific job controlling the message especially on things like breakdowns which are impossible to spin especially without data.