Havre De Grace Retired

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

That's a shame. I'll miss her running. The vet report shows how one tiny, little ligament can end a career. Considering the mare wasn't lame, glad they caught it right away.

The vet report noted she was lame.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The vet report noted she was lame.

1 out of 5 isn't visibly lame, is it?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

1 out of 5 isn't visibly lame, is it?

Please, just admit you overlooked the first part of the report and let's move on.

If you're too proud to put it in writing, a consistently observable head nod will be taken as a "yes" instead.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Please, just admit you overlooked the first part of the report and let's move on.

If you're too proud to put it in writing, a consistently observable head nod will be taken as a "yes" instead.

What nonsense. 1/5 isn't visibly lame. If you didn't know it before, you do now. You learned something. Possibly.

Kudos to a good barn for putting their hands on the horses daily and finding this. Some lower barns miss this type of thing.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

What nonsense. 1/5 isn't visibly lame. If you didn't know it before, you do now. You learned something. Possibly.

Hey, I only pointed out that the report said Havre de Grace was "lame". Your words were "the mare was not lame". Are we to believe you, or Dr. L.R. Bramlage (you know, the one who actually examined her) on this one?

Nevertheless, I'll take the bait:

Not "visibly" lame? What sort of "lame" is it?

What's the definition of lameness? An alteration in a horse's gait. How is this recognized if not by sight? Perhaps by taste? Smell?

Anyways, enough beating around the bush. Your precious AAEP defines a grade 1 lameness as "difficult to observe; not consistently apparent". It does not say it is imperceptible. Never mind that the report also notes that the horse was greater than grade 1 when trotted on a circle to the right. Don't you think that was that deduced visually?

It's this distortion of facts when pressed that makes you lose credibility on here. Just because you have a piece of paper that others here don't, doesn't mean you can pull the wool over their eyes. You might have a PhD or a degree in veterinary medicine, but the only thing you tend to throw around here is a lot of BS.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Hey, I only pointed out that the report said Havre de Grace was "lame". Your words were "the mare was not lame". Are we to believe you, or Dr. L.R. Bramlage (you know, the one who actually examined her) on this one?

Nevertheless, I'll take the bait:

Not "visibly" lame? What sort of "lame" is it?

What's the definition of lameness? An alteration in a horse's gait. How is this recognized if not by sight? Perhaps by taste? Smell?

Anyways, enough beating around the bush. Your precious AAEP defines a grade 1 lameness as "difficult to observe; not consistently apparent". It does not say it is imperceptible. Never mind that the report also notes that the horse was greater than grade 1 when trotted on a circle to the right. Don't you think that was that deduced visually?

It's this distortion of facts when pressed that makes you lose credibility on here. Just because you have a piece of paper that others here don't, doesn't mean you can pull the wool over their eyes. You might have a PhD or a degree in veterinary medicine, but the only thing you tend to throw around here is a lot of BS.

Good lord, you're beyond absurd. You're well into self-embarrassment territory. Your attempt to snark at me has only revealed how ignorant you are of horses and lameness.

If you don't know about what the definitions of lameness are, perhaps you shouldn't arrogantly correct others who do?

There is no head nod - although I'm glad you know at least that lameness can have a head nod. We call that "junior vet student lame" - so lame that a 3rd year vet student - or an internet expert like yourself - could see it.

That happens when a lameness is graded 4 or above.

There is no "limping" at Grade 1, 2 or 3 lamenesses.

If you would like to speculate on how we professionals diagnose those low grade, non-limping lamenesses (yes, with flexion tests and circling and everything else) I'll be happy to show you sometime if you are ever in Lexington. Yes, it involves knowing more than just recognizing a limp.

And yes, we veterinarians use a specific lameness scale, of 0 - 5, with absolutely defined meanings, so when I read a report from another veterinarian - like Dr. Bramlage's report - I know exactly what he saw.

Unlike yourself, who is most obviously clueless.

My comment giving kudos to the barn, for finding a problem in a mare that was not visibly limping, and getting it diagnosed right away, stands.

You look like a fool declaring this mare "lame" and talking about a head nod with a grade of 1/5 and 1.5 flexion/circle. Why don't you apologize for being such a rude jerk about something you obviously know nothing about?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Riot

Good lord, you're beyond absurd. You're well into self-embarrassment territory. Your attempt to snark at me has only revealed how ignorant you are of horses and lameness.

If you don't know about what the definitions of lameness are, perhaps you shouldn't arrogantly correct others who do?

There is no head nod - although I'm glad you know at least that lameness can have a head nod. We call that "junior vet student lame" - so lame that a 3rd year vet student - or an internet expert like yourself - could see it.

That happens when a lameness is graded 4 or above.

There is no "limping" at Grade 1, 2 or 3 lamenesses.

If you would like to speculate on how we professionals diagnose those low grade, non-limping lamenesses (yes, with flexion tests and circling and everything else) I'll be happy to show you sometime if you are ever in Lexington. Yes, it involves knowing more than just recognizing a limp.

And yes, we veterinarians use a specific lameness scale, of 0 - 5, with absolutely defined meanings, so when I read a report from another veterinarian - like Dr. Bramlage's report - I know exactly what he saw.

Unlike yourself, who is most obviously clueless.

My comment giving kudos to the barn, for finding a problem in a mare that was not visibly limping, and getting it diagnosed right away, stands.

You look like a fool declaring this mare "lame" and talking about a head nod with a grade of 1/5 and 1.5 flexion/circle. Why don't you apologize for being such a rude jerk about something you obviously know nothing about?

Do you realize that almost everyone on this forum, if not all people on here, think you are insane?

You should try rereading a thread that you post heavily in, say, maybe six months later and see some of the stuff you come up with.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

Good lord, you're beyond absurd. You're well into self-embarrassment territory. Your attempt to snark at me has only revealed how ignorant you are of horses and lameness.

Is this your version of Stuart Smalley's Daily Affirmations?

There is no head nod - although I'm glad you know at least that lameness can have a head nod. We call that "junior vet student lame" - so lame that a 3rd year vet student - or an internet expert like yourself - could see it.

But excuse you, as you digress, since I never mentioned a head nod in reference to Havre De Grace.

That happens when a lameness is graded 4 or above.

Who cares? The examining veterinarian noted a grade 1-1.5 lameness on his report.

There is no "limping" at Grade 1, 2 or 3 lamenesses.

I know that now. The horse smells bad and tastes funny.

If you would like to speculate on how we professionals diagnose those low grade, non-limping lamenesses (yes, with flexion tests and circling and everything else) I'll be happy to show you sometime if you are ever in Lexington. Yes, it involves knowing more than just recognizing a limp.

How are you gonna "show" me? It's not a visual thing. Don't worry, I'll stock up on some palate cleansers in preparation.

And yes, we veterinarians use a specific lameness scale, of 0 - 5, with absolutely defined meanings, so when I read a report from another veterinarian - like Dr. Bramlage's report - I know exactly what he saw.

But Dr. Bramlage said the mare was lame. You said she was not. Which is it?

You look like a fool declaring this mare "lame"...

I wonder what Dr. Bramlage looks like then...

Why don't you apologize for being such a rude jerk about something you obviously know nothing about?

Sure, as soon as you apologize to Dr. Bramlage for calling him a fool.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Please, just admit you overlooked the first part of the report and let's move on.

If you're too proud to put it in writing, a consistently observable head nod will be taken as a "yes" instead.

I dont know about this one.. 1 / 5 isnt really lame.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I dont know about this one.. 1 / 5 isnt really lame.

Ok, fine. But is it at least "sort of lame"?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Ok, fine. But is it at least "sort of lame"?

not noticable, I wouldnt even consider 1 / 5 to be lame... but if something showed up during diagnostics then its best if the horse isnt in training.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

not noticable, I wouldnt even consider 1 / 5 to be lame... but if something showed up during diagnostics then its best if the horse isnt in training.

Really so the scale of lameness starts at 2..Gotcha