Pletcher

Cannon Shell · #1 11-04-2006, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPK

that was a hang????? I must not know a f*cking thing about racing then

What exactly would you call it? Just missed? He had the lead at the top of the stretch and finished a well beaten third.

randallscott35 · #2 11-04-2006, 10:38 PM

Canon, when you start 17 horses, it goes to reason that some of them won't run well. How about some of the ones who ran well? Does he get no credit for that. I'm no huge fan of Pletcher but to pick on him for not winning is ridiculous. He had a really good day. Is that better for you? Not great. Jesus with semantics.

Rupert Pupkin · #3 11-04-2006, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Canon, when you start 17 horses, it goes to reason that some of them won't run well. How about some of the ones who ran well? Does he get no credit for that. I'm no huge fan of Pletcher but to pick on him for not winning is ridiculous. He had a really good day. Is that better for you? Not great. Jesus with semantics.

I can guarantee you that Pletcher is very disappointed with the day he had today. I can promise you that he is not out celebrating.

randallscott35 · #4 11-04-2006, 10:44 PM

Well Richi, I'm sure he would like to win.

But Flower Alley sucks this year. Lawyer Ron wasn't going to do anything. FI got hurt. Some of his horses were expected to be up the track and they were.

Rupert Pupkin · #5 11-04-2006, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I can guarantee you that Pletcher is very disappointed with the day he had today. I can promise you that he is not out celebrating.

He actually did a little better than I thought. He had three 2nds and three 3rds. You could argue that that's pretty good, but for a guy like Pletcher who is so dominant and who wins at a 26% clip, he's not going to be happy going 0 for 17, even if he does have a few 2nds and 3rds.

randallscott35 · #6 11-04-2006, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

He actually did a little better than I thought. He had three 2nds and three 3rds. You could argue that that's pretty good, but for a guy like Pletcher who is so dominant and who wins at a 26% clip, he's not going to be happy going 0 for 17, even if he does have a few 2nds and 3rds.

Glad you looked into it. Mind you in a bunch of these races he had horses running against each other. Should he dead heat in those races to improve his %?

Rupert Pupkin · #7 11-04-2006, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Glad you looked into it. Mind you in a bunch of these races he had horses running against each other. Should he dead heat in those races to improve his %?

Yes, you are correct about that. You can't expect him to win at his usual clip with so many horses running against each other. I certainly did not expect him to win 4 races today. I think he would have needed to win at least one race though to go home feeling pretty good. If he would have won two, I think he would have felt really good.

Cannon Shell · #8 11-04-2006, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Yes, you are correct about that. You can't expect him to win at his usual clip with so many horses running against each other. I certainly did not expect him to win 4 races today. I think he would have needed to win at least one race though to go home feeling pretty good. If he would have won two, I think he would have felt really good.

It's not only that he didn't win it was that outside of CQ, the 2 yo fillies and Fr Island so many of his marquee horses ran below par.

Cannon Shell · #9 11-04-2006, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Canon, when you start 17 horses, it goes to reason that some of them won't run well. How about some of the ones who ran well? Does he get no credit for that. I'm no huge fan of Pletcher but to pick on him for not winning is ridiculous. He had a really good day. Is that better for you? Not great. Jesus with semantics.

The Yankees had a really good year too? I mean they made the playoffs and they even won a game before they got blow away.

It was not like he ran a bunch of 50-1 shots that would be happy to hit the board. With the exception of Friendly Island almost all of his horses did not run up to par on the biggest day in racing. The fav for the filly eclipse breaks down, the 2 favs for turf eclipses go down meekly, the fav for the 2 yo eclipse runs good but probably loses the eclipse because he loses by 7. People are talking about another trainer when talking training eclipse after you dominate all year. How do you get a good day out of that?

blackthroatedwind · #10 11-04-2006, 10:55 PM

If you added up his percentage chances with each horse his expected wins came to about 1.5 to 1.75...thus he hardly had a successful day. Not saying it was a horrible day and his pre-BC commnts about working hard all year just to get to this position were very accurate but I think even he would say the barn underperformed.

randallscott35 · #11 11-04-2006, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

If you added up his percentage chances with each horse his expected wins came to about 1.5 to 1.75...thus he hardly had a successful day. Not saying it was a horrible day and his pre-BC commnts about working hard all year just to get to this position were very accurate but I think even he would say the barn underperformed.

You could make a case on the Juvy races and the Distaff where his main horse broke down, but other than that

The Euros were better on paper in both turf races and his Classic horses were outclassed and that was known. So should he have won a juvy race. I guess so. His fault the rail was a disgrace today and cost him the juvy fillies.

blackthroatedwind · #12 11-04-2006, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

You could make a case on the Juvy races and the Distaff where his main horse broke down, but other than that

The Euros were better on paper in both turf races and his Classic horses were outclassed and that was known. So should he have won a juvy race. I guess so. His fault the rail was a disgrace today and cost him the juvy fillies.

Octave had a candy rail trip. She was simply not good enough. Any bias did not beat her. And, quite frankly, that was as bad a juvenile fillies field as I havce ever seen.

Todd's a terrific trainer, and was hardly disgraced today, but there is little doubt the barn underperformed overall. But, he also has overperformed on many occasions and will live to fight many more days.

GPK · #13 11-06-2006, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What exactly would you call it? Just missed? He had the lead at the top of the stretch and finished a well beaten third.

3-4 wide for three turns for 1.5 miles....I think he ran a great race. The only two that beat him saved all the ground the whole way around. Please don't tell me that you honestly believe being wide for the whole 1.5 miles had no bearing on him not winning that race. How many lengths do you think that translates to losing when running that wide for 3 turns??? I surely think it was more than what he actually lost by.