Jones on HDG and weight - Page 3

Danzig · #41 04-07-2012, 09:22 PM

and i can assure rick porter that he need not worry about oaklawn packing the house. the crowds will be there, with or without him and his garish sports coat.

perhaps someone could prevail upon larry jones to actually retire, and take rick porter with him? i almost wish i had a facebook account so i could take him to task...but even this isn't worth that trouble! perhaps the next hoy winner can be someone without a douche for an owner? we've had our fill of them lately.

cmorioles · #42 04-07-2012, 09:51 PM

He immediately loses all credibility for mentioning Absinthe Minded as a contender in a G1 race...not that he had any.

PatCummings · #43 04-07-2012, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

the fox hill farm FB rant... one for the ages
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fox-H...49399288440985

Larry and I really wanted to defend our title in the Apple Blossom. We were expecting fair weights and when they were released today, Larry called me and we were flabbergasted at the weights. Plum Pretty was the most unexpected but a lot of them were very unfair. Tiz Miz Sue was getting 8 pounds after just running over a hundred beyer and winning the graded Azeri Stakes. Absinthe Minded was getting 9. No one can say that we have ducked any one in racing. Hard Spun took on every tough race there was as did Round Pond and the immortal Eight Belles. We love the competition. Havre de Grace took on Blind Luck six times and ran against the boys in the prestigious Woodward and we didn't bat an eye at running in the granddaddy of them all, the Classic. We have decided one thing though, we will take on any horse and take our defeats when we get them but we won't let the racing secretaries decide who is going to win the races. That is why we took this stand on the Apple Blossom. The weights are unfair and I have asked all the journalists to demand that Pope explain how he came up with the numbers for the weights. He owes it to the fans that were going to pack the house for the Apple Blossom. He just didn't invent these weights, his duty as racing secretary is to analyse each horse and their races and come up with fair weights. Since he had to do it, he should make it public so we can see his thinking and reasoning. I hope he takes on his responsibility. We will run in The La Troienne at Churchill Downs on May 4th. This is exactly what I said we would do if Pope came out with unfair weights. I hope you all understand. We have decisions to make in running a racing operation and today was one of those tough ones.

A horse of the year is saddled with 123 pounds against Absinthe Minded nd it's termed a travesty...complaining about it, that would be the travesty. This is such bloviating drivel, I don't know where to start...oh yeah, except for maybe the fact that Hard Spun and Eight Belles never raced beyond their 3YO seasons, and were never possibly in this position to begin. That's a good place to start. Triple-digit Beyers = high handicap weights?

Say what you want about what HDG would have to carry, but props to Pope for assigning the COMPETITION legitimate weights, and maintaining some degree of sanity. It's useless to be held to some unattainable standard that may, or may not, be arbitrarily bashed by Porter, so Pope assigned a scrub like Absinthe Minded 9 pounds less than the reigning HOTY. Oh, the tragedy.

NTamm1215 · #44 04-07-2012, 10:09 PM

I bet D. Wayne was pumped that Porter mentioned Absinthe Minded in that ridiculous rant. Havre de Grace should have to give her 15 lbs minimum.

bare it all · #45 04-07-2012, 10:34 PM

An absolute embarrassment to the sport by crying that the HOTY can't beat these others. I'm not saying they are mules, but they aren't CHAMPIONS as this mare is supposed to be. The fact they are trying to create public outcry is beyond my understanding. How DARE they try to make a handicap fair by adding lbs. I stand by my statement that the connections of this mare DID NOT deserve HOTY. I surely hope they ruin her reputation with this ducking enough for voters to remember this in ballots later.

Danzig · #46 04-07-2012, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

He immediately loses all credibility for mentioning Absinthe Minded as a contender in a G1 race...not that he had any.

Indian Charlie · #47 04-08-2012, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew

I do not think that word means what he thinks it means.

He also called the BCC the granddaddy of them all.

Cannon Shell · #48 04-08-2012, 06:09 AM

Welcome to horse racing 2012. Porter's attitude and thought process is not unique in the sport at the higher levels. Perhaps not necessarily always about weights but the effort to build creampuff filled resumes is what cheats the game from seeing great races and has weakened some of our traditionally top races. The idea that the best horses should be given some sort of advantage because they might draw a few more fans to the track to see another 5 horse coronation is incredibly stupid.

GenuineRisk · #49 04-08-2012, 07:25 AM

If they want a weight break so bad, there's an easy solution. Run against the boys.

Danzig · #50 04-08-2012, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

If they want a weight break so bad, there's an easy solution. Run against the boys.

exactly. she got 118 for the oaklawn 'cap. he never even mentioned that in his ricidulous diatribe. i think they were unhappy with her slower than expected work so they're skipping racing altogether in favor of making sure she's 100%. the weights are a bad but convenient excuse.

GenuineRisk · #51 04-08-2012, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

exactly. she got 118 for the oaklawn 'cap. he never even mentioned that in his ricidulous diatribe. i think they were unhappy with her slower than expected work so they're skipping racing altogether in favor of making sure she's 100%. the weights are a bad but convenient excuse.

Heh. If someone posted that on her Facebook Page, I wonder how many seconds would elapse before the comment was deleted.

freddymo · #52 04-08-2012, 08:03 AM

This is some stupid stuff out of Porter/Jones. They have last years Woodward winner. I guess they want Zenyatta her.

PeteMugg · #53 04-08-2012, 08:20 AM

Curious what the purpose of a handicap is for racing. Is it to make all things even? Or is it like other sports, such as golf or bowling, only meant to make things more competitve? I've never given it much thought but I think the deck should still be stacked in favor of the better horses. They've earned it.

Thunder Gulch · #54 04-08-2012, 08:34 AM

Bottom line is HDG isn't ready for the Apple Blossom, or at least isn't ready for her best. She'll be a big play against in the La Troienne

Cannon Shell · #55 04-08-2012, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteMugg

Curious what the purpose of a handicap is for racing. Is it to make all things even? Or is it like other sports, such as golf or bowling, only meant to make things more competitve? I've never given it much thought but I think the deck should still be stacked in favor of the better horses. They've earned it.

What sport gives the "better" athletes/teams an advantage? Handicaps are designed to give all participants an equal chance and if they choose not to accept the weight fine. But it is the attitude that they have been wronged somehow which is so laughable.

Danzig · #56 04-08-2012, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteMugg

Curious what the purpose of a handicap is for racing. Is it to make all things even? Or is it like other sports, such as golf or bowling, only meant to make things more competitve? I've never given it much thought but I think the deck should still be stacked in favor of the better horses. They've earned it.

i disagree. handicaps are to try to get fuller fields; as a way to encourage those with horses that are at a disadvantage to run in races-otherwise we'd have more walk-overs and smaller fields. everyone one in a while you get folks who throw little temper tantrums like porter yesterday. it's an attempt to sway the racing secretaries to concern themselves more with getting a star horse than they are in weighting a race correctly. it's not a slap at porter, but to give a lesser gap would be a slap in the face to every other owner who might enter a horse. porter is completely in the wrong here. he wants the best of both worlds, to win awards and accolades but not necessarily earn them.
what they should have said is based on hds's work, they're going to give her a little more time. it's far more plausible, and would make him appear less a petty tyrant and moron.
the 118 she'd have gotten to face boys also proves it wasn't the weight. he wants to win trophies this year based on last years' body of work. wonder where he got that idea from?

Merlinsky · #57 04-08-2012, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

He blames pope? The weights are far from unfair. I would rather he just retire her and spare us this bs the rest of the year.

PeteMugg · #58 04-08-2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What sport gives the "better" athletes/teams an advantage? Handicaps are designed to give all participants an equal chance and if they choose not to accept the weight fine. But it is the attitude that they have been wronged somehow which is so laughable.

I'm not sure, but I think golf and bowling (local stuff, not professional) have handicap events. Your handicap allowance only gets you closer to even. you would still have to raise your game to win.

My point is I don't think a weight allowance should be applied to make all horses even, merely to close the gap. You're right, Porter's attitude is laughable. But hey, some say HDG is unworthy of horse of the year, then turn around and say they should carry so much more weight. Both can't be right, can they?

blackthroatedwind · #59 04-08-2012, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

Bottom line is HDG isn't ready for the Apple Blossom, or at least isn't ready for her best. She'll be a big play against in the La Troienne

Based on what?

GenuineRisk · #60 04-08-2012, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteMugg

I'm not sure, but I think golf and bowling (local stuff, not professional) have handicap events. Your handicap allowance only gets you closer to even. you would still have to raise your game to win.

My point is I don't think a weight allowance should be applied to make all horses even, merely to close the gap. You're right, Porter's attitude is laughable. But hey, some say HDG is unworthy of horse of the year, then turn around and say they should carry so much more weight. Both can't be right, can they?

It's not going to make all things even; one horse is still going to win the race. But adjusting weight according to displayed ability is going to, theoretically, give any horse in the race a chance. And for a sport that depends on gambling, that's essential.

I like HdG and I was glad she won HoY. But so far they're campaigning like Rachel Alexandra's 4-year-old year. Yawn.