Tyler Baze - put the whiskey down, son

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Not recognizing alcoholism as a disease is like assuming that the mentally ill just need to "snap out of it."

Defined:

In a 1992 JAMA article, the Joint Committee of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence, Inc. (NCADD) and the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) published this definition for alcoholism:
“Alcoholism is a primary chronic disease with genetic, psychosocial and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. The disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, mostly denial. Each of these symptoms may be continuous or periodic.”

There's a reason alcoholics who have stopped drinking are called "recovering." it's because they'll never be "cured." They won't ever be able to drink as someone who is not alcoholic can drink. It's a disease.

My father is drinking himself to death. It's an awful thing to watch. And I spent years angry about it. But, for whatever reason, I was spared the addictive need for alcohol my dad has. Which means I can't ever understand what's going on in his head. I can't judge, because I will never truly understand.

'Many physicians reject the disease theory of alcoholism. One study found that only 20 percent of physicians believe that substance addiction is a disease. In addition, 55 percent believe that there is "no effective treatment" for it.(T. McLellan. R-Considering Addiction Treatment: How Can Treatment Be More Accountable And Effective? A Continuing Medical Education (CME)Course. Cranston, Rhode Island, Association for Medical Education and Research on Substance Abuse, 2006.)

Another study found that only 25 percent of physicians believed that alcoholism is a disease. The majority believed alcoholism to be a social or psychological problem instead of a disease. (S.I. Mignon. Physicians' Perceptions of Alcoholics: The Disease Concept Reconsidered. Alcoholism Treatment Quarterly, 1996, v. 14, no. 4, pp. 33–45)

A survey of physicians at an annual conference of the International Doctors in Alcoholics Anonymous reported that 80 percent believe that alcoholism is merely bad behavior instead of a disease. (Barrier to Treatment. Alcoholmd - Information About Alcohol and Medicine)

Dr. Thomas R. Hobbs says that "Based on my experiences working in the addiction field for the past 10 years, I believe many, if not most, health care professionals still view alcohol addiction as a willpower or conduct problem and are resistant to look at it as a disease." (T.R. Hobbs. Managing Alcoholism as a Disease. Physician's News Digest, 1998.)

Alcoholics Anonymous says that "Some professionals will tell you that alcoholism is a disease while others contend that it is a choice" and "some doctors will tell you that it is in fact a disease." (Alcoholics Anonymous. What Is Alcoholism? http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.com/...alcoholism.htm)[42]'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease..._of_alcoholism


not trying to change minds here at all. just want to show that it's not a clearcut decision amongst physicians. which probably explains why some of us aren't sure it's so clear cut either.

[Port Conway Lane]

I was primarily a beer drinker for over 20 years. I am ashamed to admit it but I dodged countless DUI's and I was lucky I never injured or killed anyone.

I will never know for sure but my life (and possibly others) may have been spared 13 years ago when I ran into the back of a car at a stop light after consuming over 24 beers over an 8 hour span.

I never touched a drink again.....until two years ago. So far so good. It is not a battle for me. I need to stay away from a motor vehicle when i consume alchohol.

I put the bottle down instantly after a wake up call. Others aren't as fortunate. I could be the same person I was 13 years ago from today forward.

Everyone's experience is different. I'm responsible for my actions. Tyler Baze is responsible for his actions. Whether alchoholism is a disease or not doesn't spare Tyler his responsibility.

Well said.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

Everyone's experience is different. I'm responsible for my actions. Tyler Baze is responsible for his actions. Whether alchoholism is a disease or not doesn't spare Tyler his responsibility.

I don't think anyone here thinks that alcoholism is a reason to not face consequences, especially for actions that are illegal, which includes driving under the influence. I have no problem with people ending up in jail for DUI or losing their licenses. And not because I think it's a deterrent- because alcoholism is a disease, it's not going to respond to punishment. How many people have repeated DUI's? I think they should lose their licenses and serve jail time because they're a menace behind the wheel.

So of course Baze should face consequences. But to assume it's just a character flaw really ignores what alcoholism is.

It's a disease! OMG put on the kid gloves.

You can prevent the disease through lifestyle choices.

Personal responsibility is the best path for wellness. Stop making excuses for adults. The overreaction to those pictures is telling. Making fun of a drunk who is fortunate to be blessed with the ability to make a great living is equal to making fun of an aids baby?

Ridiculous.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I don't think anyone here thinks that alcoholism is a reason to not face consequences, especially for actions that are illegal, which includes driving under the influence. I have no problem with people ending up in jail for DUI or losing their licenses. And not because I think it's a deterrent- because alcoholism is a disease, it's not going to respond to punishment. How many people have repeated DUI's? I think they should lose their licenses and serve jail time because they're a menace behind the wheel.

So of course Baze should face consequences. But to assume it's just a character flaw really ignores what alcoholism is.

To me if it is a disease for one it is a disease for all or it is a choice people make. I reacted to my drinking only when the unthinkable happened. As I stated before Others aren't as fortunate. Some people don't give a flying **** and some have a death wish. I have empathy for anyone who has lost a loved one to alchoholism and my belief as to whether I have a disease or a choice is based only on my personal experience and no one elses.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

To me if it is a disease for one it is a disease for all or it is a choice people make. I reacted to my drinking only when the unthinkable happened. As I stated before Others aren't as fortunate. Some people don't give a flying **** and some have a death wish. I have empathy for anyone who has lost a loved one to alchoholism and my belief as to whether I have a disease or a choice is based only on my personal experience and no one elses.

Drinking is a choice, alcoholism is not. And it manifests in so many different ways that I think it's hard for those of us who are accustomed to diseases being easily identifiable and manifesting pretty much the same way in everyone. The four condition usually used to diagnose a disease are that it be primary (have recognizable symptoms), chronic (continues if not treated), progressive (gets worse over time) and be fatal. I feel alcoholism fits the bill.

The frustrating thing being that it is possible to arrest the disease by stopping drinking, which is the easiest thing in the world for those who don't feel a compulsion to drink.

There are those who would say you're not an alcoholic at all if you're capable of drinking now, and those who would say you're a functional alcoholic, which is to say it's not interfering with your life. As far as I'm concerned, as long as you're not hurting anyone, it's no one's business but yours whether you're drinking or not.

Baze, of course, is actually hurting people, and needs to be held responsible for his actions, but the state of being an alcoholic is not an action. Either way, I do hope he gets help. Bailey said that after he stopped drinking, it was like races were suddenly in slow motion- with a clear head, he felt had all the time in the world to think about what he was going to do during the race. I always thought that was a neat image.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

'Many physicians reject the disease theory of alcoholism. One study found that only 20 percent of physicians believe that substance addiction is a disease. In addition, 55 percent believe that there is "no effective treatment" for it.(T. McLellan. R-Considering Addiction Treatment: How Can Treatment Be More Accountable And Effective? A Continuing Medical Education (CME)Course. Cranston, Rhode Island, Association for Medical Education and Research on Substance Abuse, 2006.)

Another study found that only 25 percent of physicians believed that alcoholism is a disease. The majority believed alcoholism to be a social or psychological problem instead of a disease. (S.I. Mignon. Physicians' Perceptions of Alcoholics: The Disease Concept Reconsidered. Alcoholism Treatment Quarterly, 1996, v. 14, no. 4, pp. 33–4

A survey of physicians at an annual conference of the International Doctors in Alcoholics Anonymous reported that 80 percent believe that alcoholism is merely bad behavior instead of a disease. (Barrier to Treatment. Alcoholmd - Information About Alcohol and Medicine)

Dr. Thomas R. Hobbs says that "Based on my experiences working in the addiction field for the past 10 years, I believe many, if not most, health care professionals still view alcohol addiction as a willpower or conduct problem and are resistant to look at it as a disease." (T.R. Hobbs. Managing Alcoholism as a Disease. Physician's News Digest, 1998.)

Alcoholics Anonymous says that "Some professionals will tell you that alcoholism is a disease while others contend that it is a choice" and "some doctors will tell you that it is in fact a disease." (Alcoholics Anonymous. What Is Alcoholism? http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.com/...alcoholism.htm)[42]'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease..._of_alcoholism


not trying to change minds here at all. just want to show that it's not a clearcut decision amongst physicians. which probably explains why some of us aren't sure it's so clear cut either.

The medical profession was still considering homosexuality a mental illness in your lifetime, too.

I think what boggles the minds of non-alcoholics is that it seems so simple- just stop drinking, right? But in the mind of an alcoholic it just doesn't work that way.

This is pure woo speculation on my part, but I do think there's a difference in brain wiring for people prone to addiction, and sometimes I wonder if it's more likely in people with a higher tolerance for adrenaline/stress. My dad is amazing in a crisis. Amazing. Calm, clear-headed, insightful. It's everyday life he can't handle.

And when it comes to jockeys, these are men and women who are happy to get on a fragile animal traveling at 30 miles an hour, knowing they are going to break bones several times in their career. You have to be an adrenaline junkie to want to do that.

[dagolfer33]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I do think there's a difference in brain wiring for people prone to addiction, and sometimes I wonder if it's more likely in people with a higher tolerance for adrenaline/stress. My dad is amazing in a crisis. Amazing. Calm, clear-headed, insightful.

I think this could be true, and could explain why pro athletes get caught up in addictions.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I think what boggles the minds of non-alcoholics is that it seems so simple- just stop drinking, right? But in the mind of an alcoholic it just doesn't work that way.

I'm sorry to hear about your personal stories of family members battles with alcoholism, Nicole.

I don't think alcholics can "just stop drinking" unless they're truly tough enough to do it and have a lot to gain by doing it. I think it's ok if they accept what they have and drink in cycles.

Tyler Baze needs to do what Tyler Baze wants to do. If that's to run from the pressure of being a jockey and drink -- it's his life and that is what makes him happy. When he gets to the point where he accepts that he will be happier as a jockey -- he has a comeback attempt to motivate him.

Sorry if my opinion seems or is ignorant.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

The medical profession was still considering homosexuality a mental illness in your lifetime, too.

I think what boggles the minds of non-alcoholics is that it seems so simple- just stop drinking, right? But in the mind of an alcoholic it just doesn't work that way.

This is pure woo speculation on my part, but I do think there's a difference in brain wiring for people prone to addiction, and sometimes I wonder if it's more likely in people with a higher tolerance for adrenaline/stress. My dad is amazing in a crisis. Amazing. Calm, clear-headed, insightful. It's everyday life he can't handle.

And when it comes to jockeys, these are men and women who are happy to get on a fragile animal traveling at 30 miles an hour, knowing they are going to break bones several times in their career. You have to be an adrenaline junkie to want to do that.

i very much agree they have something going on in their heads-i've cautioned my kids that there is addictive behavior in their family history. drinkers, smokers, my loser brother will play world of warcraft all day and all night. i think his kids could spontaneously combust right next to him and he'd never notice. he's made it his life, since he's so unhappy with reality.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

This is pure woo speculation on my part, but I do think there's a difference in brain wiring for people prone to addiction, ....

That's what the medical community thinks. Addiction and/or disease. See Danzigs Wiki source.

[Honu]

There is a point when people are alcoholics that even if they know they should stop they cant. Even if they can make up their mind to do it their body cannot physically do it because it could kill them. Its worse than heroin as far as its toll on the body. I do believe some people are more disposed to addiction than others just like some people's bodies are more prone to illness.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Riot

That's what the medical community thinks. Addiction and/or disease. See Danzigs Wiki source.

That is interesting considering that you insulted another poster just the other day as "an alcoholic loser."