Ted Haggard

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Danzig,
I agree with most of what you said.
I don't agree that congress made an "informed decision". They were fed deceptive information about wmd's by a CIA and other "intelligence" agencies to substantiate a decision that had already been made.
Note Powell's presentation to the uN and Bush's "State of the Union Address".
Lies bite back.
As it is written, "All things will be revealed".

and yet many still support bush, the war effort. lieberman for one was thrown to the wolves by his party for continuing to support that war--seems to me only those who are now regretful of their vote/support want to lay blame on the cia and others--that way they don't have to take any responsibility for their vote.
and it was funny to me that the same intelligence agencies that were being blamed for the lack of wmd's were suddenly being praised a few weeks back by those same critics when they came out with info that put the war and it's affects in a bad light. i guess NOW the CIA and others are correct, but were wrong before....

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

and yet many still support bush, the war effort. lieberman for one was thrown to the wolves by his party for continuing to support that war--seems to me only those who are now regretful of their vote/support want to lay blame on the cia and others--that way they don't have to take any responsibility for their vote.
and it was funny to me that the same intelligence agencies that were being blamed for the lack of wmd's were suddenly being praised a few weeks back by those same critics when they came out with info that put the war and it's affects in a bad light. i guess NOW the CIA and others are correct, but were wrong before....

Danzig,
I'll have to do a search for the NIE report. It's worth the read.
If authorization for going to war was based on false information, the blame is not on the ones that voted, but on those that provided the "information" on which it was based.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Danzig,
I'll have to do a search for the NIE report. It's worth the read.
If authorization for going to war was based on false information, the blame is not on the ones that voted, but on those that provided the "information" on which it was based.

dts--i went and found one of the last playboy issues to come out, in which they interviewed arianna huffington...bear with my typing, it will no doubt have typos as i have to peck this out...

huffington:although it goes without saying that we can be legitimately outraged at the administration that took us to war--that i blame the president goes without saying--i'm equally ourtaged at the democratic leadership for allowing the president to take us to war...

playboy:...was there any reason for you to think the opposition would oppose, at least at the time?
huffington: yes, because it was a matter of going to war. and remember, we were actually in the majority in the senate in 2002, if only for a moment. you can forgive politicians for going along on umimortant issues, but to allown an adminstration to take us into an unnecessary war? nothing is more immoral.

playboy: but who in congress knew it was unnecessary? ti took years for accustaion that the administration manipulated and ignored intelligence to surface.

continued...

[Danzig]

huffington: the late democratic senator from minnesota paul wellstone voted against the war in 2002. i've had off the recrod conversations with many democratic leaders who knew better and did not act on that knowledge. i believe the the democrats lacked courageous leadership, lacked a willingness to stand up for what they believed in, for what is right--even if they lost. there is a special blame and a special place in dante's inferno for them.

playboy: so why did they do it?

huffington: democrats are fools and enablers. their spineless leaders went along with the war purely for political reasons: reelectability. they assumed if they opposed the war they would be seen as weak.


---this all supports my belief that congress KNEW exactly what they cia told them at the time of their vote--that only when they felt that things were going poorly in iraq that it was time to trot out the whole 'they lied to us about wmd's' bs excuse. that way they could claim innocence, we voted for a just war, not this--but i think they knew THEN what they claim to have learned much later.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

huffington: the late democratic senator from minnesota paul wellstone voted against the war in 2002. i've had off the recrod conversations with many democratic leaders who knew better and did not act on that knowledge. i believe the the democrats lacked courageous leadership, lacked a willingness to stand up for what they believed in, for what is right--even if they lost. there is a special blame and a special place in dante's inferno for them.

playboy: so why did they do it?

huffington: democrats are fools and enablers. their spineless leaders went along with the war purely for political reasons: reelectability. they assumed if they opposed the war they would be seen as weak.


---this all supports my belief that congress KNEW exactly what they cia told them at the time of their vote--that only when they felt that things were going poorly in iraq that it was time to trot out the whole 'they lied to us about wmd's' bs excuse. that way they could claim innocence, we voted for a just war, not this--but i think they knew THEN what they claim to have learned much later.

This sounds plausible to me,and after 11/7...I'm going to take a long hot shower to wash all the crap off!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

This sounds plausible to me,and after 11/7...I'm going to take a long hot shower to wash all the crap off!

don't forget to go vote! at least we can say we tried. altho i really wish they would start putting 'none of the above, we want new choices' on the ballots...

asa hutchinson came back 'home' to run for gov here. looks like i'll be going straight dem on gov and lt gov here this time 'round. (they run separately, we could actually have a gov from one party, and a lt gov from the other!)....asa is ok, but beebe seems the better choice. and we just had a rep for 8 years, and i don't like huckabee one bit--looks like he's going to attempt a run in '08 for pres--we have term limits here, so he's out.

the republican running for lt gov is an ultra-right wing religious zealot. he scares me!!

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

huffington: the late democratic senator from minnesota paul wellstone voted against the war in 2002. i've had off the recrod conversations with many democratic leaders who knew better and did not act on that knowledge. i believe the the democrats lacked courageous leadership, lacked a willingness to stand up for what they believed in, for what is right--even if they lost. there is a special blame and a special place in dante's inferno for them.

playboy: so why did they do it?

huffington: democrats are fools and enablers. their spineless leaders went along with the war purely for political reasons: reelectability. they assumed if they opposed the war they would be seen as weak.


---this all supports my belief that congress KNEW exactly what they cia told them at the time of their vote--that only when they felt that things were going poorly in iraq that it was time to trot out the whole 'they lied to us about wmd's' bs excuse. that way they could claim innocence, we voted for a just war, not this--but i think they knew THEN what they claim to have learned much later.

Danzig,
Thanks for the article.
We ALL claimed to have learned much later.
Just ask Dubbya.
DTS

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

and yet many still support bush, the war effort. lieberman for one was thrown to the wolves by his party for continuing to support that war--seems to me only those who are now regretful of their vote/support want to lay blame on the cia and others--that way they don't have to take any responsibility for their vote.
and it was funny to me that the same intelligence agencies that were being blamed for the lack of wmd's were suddenly being praised a few weeks back by those same critics when they came out with info that put the war and it's affects in a bad light. i guess NOW the CIA and others are correct, but were wrong before....

I don't think anyone really cares about the stuff that DTS brings up. The only thing that people care about is the fact that the war is not going well right now and Americans are getting killed. That is pretty much the only thing that most Americans care about. I think that the only regret that people have is the fact that things are not working out the way we hoped. People are also starting to question whether this startegy of "stay the course" is working. People are starting to get pretty fed up. If this thing would have ended a year ago, I don't think most Americans would have had any regrets about this war.