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[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

... just throwing money at the same horses in the same basic structure is a waste of money.

I've said this all along. Because of how slot money is dealt out, I hate it for the game. A better approach and I have no problem with it. What is being done now does nothing to help the sport. I'm glad to see you've come around.

[richard]

Winning $17k for a $7.5 claimer ? That's goodness. It's about time purses went up for all levels imo.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by richard

Winning $17k for a $7.5 claimer ? That's goodness. It's about time purses went up for all levels imo.

In no way am I against purse levels going up. However when the purses get out of whack it leads to less competitive racing as owners are encouraged not to try to find the best level for their horses but can be rewarded by simply plunging them to the bottom. It wasn't that long ago that the bottom in NY was $12000. The goal in NY should be to get rid of the $7500 claimers and get a better class of horse not encourage owners to get more of them. I also understand that a lot of owners/trainers in NY have been discouraged by trying to compete with the corporate outfits and simply opt for cheaper claimers/NY breds. Towards end of the GP meet and through Keeneland there will be claiming frenzy as guys load up on claimers to bring to NY. Sure being an attractive destination to owners is a plus but as long as a few guys control all the good horses the overall quality of racing in NY will not do much more than inch up if at all.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

In no way am I against purse levels going up. However when the purses get out of whack it leads to less competitive racing as owners are encouraged not to try to find the best level for their horses but can be rewarded by simply plunging them to the bottom. It wasn't that long ago that the bottom in NY was $12000. The goal in NY should be to get rid of the $7500 claimers and get a better class of horse not encourage owners to get more of them. I also understand that a lot of owners/trainers in NY have been discouraged by trying to compete with the corporate outfits and simply opt for cheaper claimers/NY breds. Towards end of the GP meet and through Keeneland there will be claiming frenzy as guys load up on claimers to bring to NY. Sure being an attractive destination to owners is a plus but as long as a few guys control all the good horses the overall quality of racing in NY will not do much more than inch up if at all.

I've been saying that as well. Higher purses are great, but keeping the claiming levels too low is turning the sport into an equine version of "Flip Men". The difference here is usually the living, breathing horses pay the price.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I've been saying that as well. Higher purses are great, but keeping the claiming levels too low is turning the sport into an equine version of "Flip Men". The difference here is usually the living, breathing horses pay the price.

It is really stunning that a multi-billion dollar business can have no idea what to do with found money. Believe me when I bring this up to people in the business most either think I'm crazy or they simply have no understanding of what I am talking about. We spend far too much resources on debating Lasix or worrying about starting facebook pages when the entire structure of the business on the racing side has gotten so far out of whack. The dangerous part is that the existence of the sport on a state by state level is very precarious yet the JC thinks it is doing groundbreaking work, the horsemans associations more or less have their head in the sand and the tracks are being run into the ground, sometimes in racino states probably by design. Trying to explain to horsemen that we need to dedicate some of our funds to grow the game because when it comes down to it is our game (not the tracks) and we NEED horseracing to flourish is usually met with blank stares.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is really stunning that a multi-billion dollar business can have no idea what to do with found money. Believe me when I bring this up to people in the business most either think I'm crazy or they simply have no understanding of what I am talking about. We spend far too much resources on debating Lasix or worrying about starting facebook pages when the entire structure of the business on the racing side has gotten so far out of whack. The dangerous part is that the existence of the sport on a state by state level is very precarious yet the JC thinks it is doing groundbreaking work, the horsemans associations more or less have their head in the sand and the tracks are being run into the ground, sometimes in racino states probably by design. Trying to explain to horsemen that we need to dedicate some of our funds to grow the game because when it comes down to it is our game (not the tracks) and we NEED horseracing to flourish is usually met with blank stares.

Is it because a rising percentage of trainers can't speak fluent English?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Is it because a rising percentage of trainers can't speak fluent English?

No the majority doesn't really matter. It is the people in power are entrenched and don't want to rock the boat. Well in most cases. Some of them are simply morons. The level of incompetency on the executive level in the sport of horse racing is amazing. On both the horseman and tracks sides. Of course as CDI and Penn Nat'l gaming, etc. keep putting non-racing people in charge of racing and the horsemen keep letting ourselves be distracted by bs like Lasix things wont change. They will probably get worse.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I've said this all along. Because of how slot money is dealt out, I hate it for the game. A better approach and I have no problem with it. What is being done now does nothing to help the sport. I'm glad to see you've come around.

My argument all along is that it is better to be involved than not simply because the gaming surge was coming regardless of what we did or did not do. But sadly the money is being squandered by not being aggressive and bold and trying to put on a better product. What has gone on in LA is that statebreds have overrun the circuits and there is very little incentive for owners/trainers to have anything but. Which is helping keep owners in the game but hasn't made the product very attractive especially considering it wouldnt take much to improve on what they had. In PA you have management at one track that is already outright hostile towards the racing and another that is disinterested. (Pres Isle's meet is basically a farce). You have a horsemans group at Philly that is dominated by trainers like Phil Aristone who want to keep competition out hence despite 300k a day purses, year round racing and fairly soft competition virtually no one from out of town has relocated there and stayed. Penn National has more new outfits. Doesn't it strike you as odd considering tracks in the area Delaware, Monmouth, NYRA etc have a steady influx of new trainers? Supposedly there is going to be an announcement this week in PA that the state is going to dip into the horsemans fund once again and the truth is that they really dont have much of an argument against it. Most days the cheaper horses running there would be running there regardless of the purses and the thing is outside of a dozen or so outfits most of the others have no where to go anyway.

NYRA is in a different situation but with the influx of slot money available they can seperate themselves from Monmouth, Delaware, Parx pursewise by being able to give away a lot more for similar races and in doing so clearly makes them the top destination for good horses. What they need to do is make sure that those good horses actually run at NYRA tracks and dont continue to train there and run elsewhere. They needed to add conditioned claimers, turf sprints, etc to compete in the marketplace for lower level horses to fill their cards in the past but heading into this summer especially with the meet in flux at Monmouth, probable purse reduction in PA, and potentially some issues in Delaware they can re-establish themselves as the clear leader and in doing so can seize back control of their racing program. But I doubt that they will be able to see the forest for the trees.