John Kerry, Nobody?

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i've heard the audio of kerry making those remarks back in the 70's, more than once. also the audio of him saying not long ago that our soldiers shouldn't be 'terrorizing kids, children, and women in iraq'. that's right, not only are our best and bravest rapists, murderers and arsonists, but now they commit acts of terror--at least according to kerry...at least he didn't compare them to nazis, as another dem has done....kerry's a fraud--his whole goose hunt deal was the worst acting display i have ever seen.

Then for the love of Pete, would someone please track down what he said and post it? It makes me crazy when people say, "Oh, so-and-so said such-and-such" and then say, "But I don't have time to find what he said." Well, then you might be misquoting. And you might not, but without the actual quotes, presented in their entirety for context, how can anyone know? And if you're not willing to take the time to track it down, then why post it? It's not fair to say, "Well, someone else should look it up."

Again, I find it logically very hard to believe a veteran would say all veterans are child rapists and murderers. I could A) believe that he was referring to a small number of soldiers who are naturally sociopaths, in or out of uniform or B) that the strains of war, fighting for an unpopular cause and a government that historically has not really supported its soldiers and veterans well would not offer the support needed and some would unhinge from the enormous stress they were under. I'm skeptical that he said anything about the entire armed forces.

Kerry's a bad speaker, no question, and he made a dumb joke (which his speechwriters are claiming was not even how they worded it-- true? I don't know. But if it is, it once again reminds this writer of how non-writers seem to think it's easy to write and usually when they try to edit, they make it worse. Unless they're editors. Then they know what they're doing. Kerry is not.) And he apologized to anyone who misinterpreted him. Fine. I can't see how any rational person could honestly think he intended, in an obviously public speech, to insult the armed forces he served in, but obviously Bush lovers are going to believe he was because it makes them feel better about voting for the party of "Heck of a job, Brownie" and "terrific job" (Rumsfeld).

For the record, Rupert (I'd been wondering where you were, by the way- nice to see you), I would feel EXACTLY the same way if Bush had said the comment. I won't pretend I wouldn't be feeling the glee that you neo-cons are all feeling about Kerry's gaffe, but I would absolutely think he'd screwed up what he meant to say. I think Bush is a fundamentalist rich kid who absolutely refuses to deal with reality, but I also don't believe he'd deliberately insult the armed forces. Understaff them, sure. Underfund them, sure. Deprive them of body armor, sure. But publicly insult them? Not in a million years. But if Kerry's gaffe makes you want to go vote Republican because you are pleased with the direction the nation is currently going, well, then go vote Republican. You've had six years of complete Republican control-- if you're happy with the results, then you know what to do.

Danzig, I actually think a divided gov't is when gov't runs best, so I don't fear that a Democratic Congress will stymie everything-- the only veto Bush cast was against federally funded stem-cell research, which means we have a deficit that your kids and grandkids are going to be paying for (you have kids, yes?). The gov't has GOT to get that under control, first and foremost. And the Republicans are pigs at the trough right now, bringing home as much as they can to their constituencies. And Bush won't rein them in. If the Dems are in charge of Congress, they won't be able to push their pork through, and Bush won't be able to push his pork through. Anything that gets through will probably be pretty decent. Clinton was Pres over a divided gov't, and they weren't such bad years. Divided gov't is a good thing.

Now, can I throw out a much more interesting volley, and see what people have to say about this?
http://www.slate.com/id/2152671/nav/tap1/

Dear lord; Breeders Cup over on Saturday and elections over on Tuesday. What is this board going to get to argue about?

Happy Thursday, everyone, by the way. A nice day to all of you! I'm limping off to work now.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Then for the love of Pete, would someone please track down what he said and post it? It makes me crazy when people say, "Oh, so-and-so said such-and-such" and then say, "But I don't have time to find what he said." Well, then you might be misquoting. And you might not, but without the actual quotes, presented in their entirety for context, how can anyone know? And if you're not willing to take the time to track it down, then why post it? It's not fair to say, "Well, someone else should look it up."

Again, I find it logically very hard to believe a veteran would say all veterans are child rapists and murderers. I could A) believe that he was referring to a small number of soldiers who are naturally sociopaths, in or out of uniform or B) that the strains of war, fighting for an unpopular cause and a government that historically has not really supported its soldiers and veterans well would not offer the support needed and some would unhinge from the enormous stress they were under. I'm skeptical that he said anything about the entire armed forces.

Kerry's a bad speaker, no question, and he made a dumb joke (which his speechwriters are claiming was not even how they worded it-- true? I don't know. But if it is, it once again reminds this writer of how non-writers seem to think it's easy to write and usually when they try to edit, they make it worse. Unless they're editors. Then they know what they're doing. Kerry is not.) And he apologized to anyone who misinterpreted him. Fine. I can't see how any rational person could honestly think he intended, in an obviously public speech, to insult the armed forces he served in, but obviously Bush lovers are going to believe he was because it makes them feel better about voting for the party of "Heck of a job, Brownie" and "terrific job" (Rumsfeld).

For the record, Rupert (I'd been wondering where you were, by the way- nice to see you), I would feel EXACTLY the same way if Bush had said the comment. I won't pretend I wouldn't be feeling the glee that you neo-cons are all feeling about Kerry's gaffe, but I would absolutely think he'd screwed up what he meant to say. I think Bush is a fundamentalist rich kid who absolutely refuses to deal with reality, but I also don't believe he'd deliberately insult the armed forces. Understaff them, sure. Underfund them, sure. Deprive them of body armor, sure. But publicly insult them? Not in a million years. But if Kerry's gaffe makes you want to go vote Republican because you are pleased with the direction the nation is currently going, well, then go vote Republican. You've had six years of complete Republican control-- if you're happy with the results, then you know what to do.

Danzig, I actually think a divided gov't is when gov't runs best, so I don't fear that a Democratic Congress will stymie everything-- the only veto Bush cast was against federally funded stem-cell research, which means we have a deficit that your kids and grandkids are going to be paying for (you have kids, yes?). The gov't has GOT to get that under control, first and foremost. And the Republicans are pigs at the trough right now, bringing home as much as they can to their constituencies. And Bush won't rein them in. If the Dems are in charge of Congress, they won't be able to push their pork through, and Bush won't be able to push his pork through. Anything that gets through will probably be pretty decent. Clinton was Pres over a divided gov't, and they weren't such bad years. Divided gov't is a good thing.

Now, can I throw out a much more interesting volley, and see what people have to say about this?
http://www.slate.com/id/2152671/nav/tap1/

Dear lord; Breeders Cup over on Saturday and elections over on Tuesday. What is this board going to get to argue about?

Happy Thursday, everyone, by the way. A nice day to all of you! I'm limping off to work now.

Why would you find it hard to belive that Kerry would insult the armed forces? He's done it before. Most of the men and women in the military were furious about his remarks about Vietnam 30 years ago.

With regard to the upcoming election, Kerry's comments are not going to have an effect on who I'm going to vote for. I actually have mixed feeling about the election. On the one hand, I think the republicans are the lesser of two evils, so I'd rather see them in control than the democrats. On the other hand, I'm pretty pissed off at the republicans right now for a lot of things including the internet gambling bill. I hate to vote for them and let them think that I'm happy with the job they're doing. I guess I will just vote for each office on a case-by-case basis. I'm not too thrilled with the republicans right now.

[Seattleallstar]

I'm still wondering why a Vietnam Vet would cut himself, because if you take the translation of what he said from the republican spinners standpoint he would be doing just that. I don't think he was refering to our men and women serving in the military, because in doing so he would only be talking about himself. He was rich, attended Yale, and still volunteered to join the military and went to war From then on he was a decorated war hero, in which his exploits were well documented and witnessed. He was saying if Bush would've made the most out of getting an education he would've not got us stuck in Iraq.

NUFFF SAID BIAACHES!!

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar

I'm still wondering why a Vietnam Vet would cut himself, because if you take the translation of what he said from the republican spinners standpoint he would be doing just that. I don't think he was refering to our men and women serving in the military, because in doing so he would only be talking about himself. He was rich, attended Yale, and still volunteered to join the military and went to war From then on he was a decorated war hero, in which his exploits were well documented and witnessed. He was saying if Bush would've made the most out of getting an education he would've not got us stuck in Iraq.

NUFFF SAID BIAACHES!!

You need to read his quote again. I think what he said is very clear. He said that, "You know education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. and if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

I think the meaning is clear. The other possible meaning does not make sense. Do you honestly think he was saying that if you don't get a good education that you will end up being President and making bad decisions on Iraq? That's ridiculous. That's not what he was saying. He was saying that if you don't get educated you won't have many options in terms of career and you may end up in the military stuck in Iraq. That is clearly what he meant. He didn't mean that you would end up being President and keeping us in Iraq. That doesn't make sense.

Kerry has a history of putting his foot in his mouth when it comes to the military. His past comments have nade it clear that he thinks that if there is no draft that the military is for poor people and minorities. He was quoted in the 1970s as saying, "I am convinced a volunteer army would be an army of the poor and the black and the brown." He obviously has no clue that plenty of educated people join the military by choice.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

You need to read his quote again. I think what he said is very clear. He said that, "You know education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. and if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

I think the meaning is clear. The other possible meaning does not make sense. Do you honestly think he was saying that if you don't get a good education that you will end up being President and making bad decisions on Iraq? That's ridiculous. That's not what he was saying. He was saying that if you don't get educated you won't have many options in terms of career and you may end up in the military stuck in Iraq. That is clearly what he meant. He didn't mean that you would end up being President and keeping us in Iraq. That doesn't make sense.

Kerry has a history of putting his foot in his mouth when it comes to the military. His past comments have nade it clear that he thinks that if there is no draft that the military is for poor people and minorities. He was quoted in the 1970s as saying, "I am convinced a volunteer army would be an army of the poor and the black and the brown." He obviously has no clue that plenty of educated people join the military by choice.

Rupert,
You and I don't agree on this at all.
The transcript of Kerry's speech is widely available. He misread it. He was attempting to say that Bush didn't do his homework before he lead the country to war in Iraq.
Kerry has since apologized.
The repubs continue to spin this for its "distraction effect".
Here's an article that you might find interesting.
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1102-33.htm
Peace.
DTS

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Rupert,
You and I don't agree on this at all.
The transcript of Kerry's speech is widely available. He misread it. He was attempting to say that Bush didn't do his homework before he lead the country to war in Iraq.
Kerry has since apologized.
The repubs continue to spin this for its "distraction effect".
Here's an article that you might find interesting.
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1102-33.htm
Peace.
DTS

Nobody is trying to spin it. There is no need to spin it. His words speak for themselves. The only one trying to spin it is you.

Maybe I'm wrong. I guess what he meant to say is that if you don't do your homework, you will end up being the Presidnet and getting us into a war. I guess that's what he was saying. That's a real logical interpretation of his words. LOL.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Nobody is trying to spin it. There is no need to spin it. His words speak for themselves. The only one trying to spin it is you.

Maybe I'm wrong. I guess what he meant to say is that if you don't do your homework, you will end up being the Presidnet and getting us into a war. I guess that's what he was saying. That's a real logical interpretation of his words. LOL.

Rupert,
I'm not "spinning" anything as I control no media outlets, nor do I have press secretaries. If you truely believe that "no one is trying to spin it", you might want to google Bush's comments on Kerry, or Tony Snow's. DUH?
I'm inclined to agree with your first sentence in your second paragraph. You are correct on that.
Logic? Real interpretation??? Sounds like you're eating too much "red meat",
or meadow muffins (pasture patties). LOL!!!

btw...if you don't do your homework, you might end up spelling president incorrectly as presidnet and get it marked off on your spelling test. Just might keep you off the 5th grade honor roll.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Then for the love of Pete, would someone please track down what he said and post it? It makes me crazy when people say, "Oh, so-and-so said such-and-such" and then say, "But I don't have time to find what he said." Well, then you might be misquoting. And you might not, but without the actual quotes, presented in their entirety for context, how can anyone know? And if you're not willing to take the time to track it down, then why post it? It's not fair to say, "Well, someone else should look it up."

Again, I find it logically very hard to believe a veteran would say all veterans are child rapists and murderers. I could A) believe that he was referring to a small number of soldiers who are naturally sociopaths, in or out of uniform or B) that the strains of war, fighting for an unpopular cause and a government that historically has not really supported its soldiers and veterans well would not offer the support needed and some would unhinge from the enormous stress they were under. I'm skeptical that he said anything about the entire armed forces.

Kerry's a bad speaker, no question, and he made a dumb joke (which his speechwriters are claiming was not even how they worded it-- true? I don't know. But if it is, it once again reminds this writer of how non-writers seem to think it's easy to write and usually when they try to edit, they make it worse. Unless they're editors. Then they know what they're doing. Kerry is not.) And he apologized to anyone who misinterpreted him. Fine. I can't see how any rational person could honestly think he intended, in an obviously public speech, to insult the armed forces he served in, but obviously Bush lovers are going to believe he was because it makes them feel better about voting for the party of "Heck of a job, Brownie" and "terrific job" (Rumsfeld).

For the record, Rupert (I'd been wondering where you were, by the way- nice to see you), I would feel EXACTLY the same way if Bush had said the comment. I won't pretend I wouldn't be feeling the glee that you neo-cons are all feeling about Kerry's gaffe, but I would absolutely think he'd screwed up what he meant to say. I think Bush is a fundamentalist rich kid who absolutely refuses to deal with reality, but I also don't believe he'd deliberately insult the armed forces. Understaff them, sure. Underfund them, sure. Deprive them of body armor, sure. But publicly insult them? Not in a million years. But if Kerry's gaffe makes you want to go vote Republican because you are pleased with the direction the nation is currently going, well, then go vote Republican. You've had six years of complete Republican control-- if you're happy with the results, then you know what to do.

Danzig, I actually think a divided gov't is when gov't runs best, so I don't fear that a Democratic Congress will stymie everything-- the only veto Bush cast was against federally funded stem-cell research, which means we have a deficit that your kids and grandkids are going to be paying for (you have kids, yes?). The gov't has GOT to get that under control, first and foremost. And the Republicans are pigs at the trough right now, bringing home as much as they can to their constituencies. And Bush won't rein them in. If the Dems are in charge of Congress, they won't be able to push their pork through, and Bush won't be able to push his pork through. Anything that gets through will probably be pretty decent. Clinton was Pres over a divided gov't, and they weren't such bad years. Divided gov't is a good thing.

Now, can I throw out a much more interesting volley, and see what people have to say about this?
http://www.slate.com/id/2152671/nav/tap1/

Dear lord; Breeders Cup over on Saturday and elections over on Tuesday. What is this board going to get to argue about?

Happy Thursday, everyone, by the way. A nice day to all of you! I'm limping off to work now.

i'm really not sure how to find the audio that i heard on the radio of his remarks. but i'm looking.

[Danzig]

did find this tho:

Nov 2, 3:12 AM (ET)
By JOHN SOLOMON

WASHINGTON (AP) - During a Vietnam-era run for Congress three decades ago, John Kerry said he opposed a volunteer Army because it would be dominated by the underprivileged, be less accountable and be more prone to "the perpetuation of war crimes."

Kerry, a decorated Vietnam veteran who turned against the war, made the observations in answers to a 1972 candidate questionnaire from a Massachusetts peace group.

After Kerry caused a firestorm this week with what he termed a botched campaign joke that Republicans said insulted current soldiers, The Associated Press was alerted to the historical comments by a former law enforcement official who monitored 1970s anti-war activities
Kerry apologized Wednesday for the 2006 campaign trail gaffe that some took as suggesting U.S. soldiers fighting in Iraq were undereducated. He contended the remark was aimed at Bush, not the soldiers.

In 1972, as he ran for the House, he was less apologetic in his comments about the merits of a volunteer army. He declared in the questionnaire that he opposed the draft but considered a volunteer army "a greater anathema."

"I am convinced a volunteer army would be an army of the poor and the black and the brown," Kerry wrote. "We must not repeat the travesty of the inequities present during Vietnam. I also fear having a professional army that views the perpetuation of war crimes as simply 'doing its job.'
"Equally as important, a volunteer army with our present constitutional crisis takes accountability away from the president and put the people further from control over military activities," he wrote.

Kerry's spokesman, David Wade, said Wednesday the historical document needed to be viewed in the era in which it was written but that it nonetheless raised a "bedrock question in a time of war when sacrifice should be shared by all Americans."

"These are the words 34 years ago of a 28-year-old veteran home from a war gone wrong, wondering who in America will bear the cost of battle and shoulder the responsibility of military service," Wade said.

Kerry filled out the candidate questionnaire at the request of Massachusetts Political Action for Peace, an anti-war group that decades later turned over its historical documents to university researchers.

AP obtained the document from someone who gathered it from archives during Kerry's unsuccessful 2004 presidential campaign against President Bush. Republicans in that election relentlessly assailed Kerry's role in the anti-war movement decades earlier.

Kerry and Bush renewed their rivalry again this week, with the president accusing Kerry of offending troops. Kerry said he botched the text of a joke and didn't mean to insult troops.

On Wednesday, Kerry canceled campaign appearance on behalf of Democratic congressional candidates and issued an apology.

[Danzig]

And there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the—of—the historical customs, religious customs. Whether you like it or not…

--john kerry on face the nation

[Danzig]

And there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the--of--the historical customs, religious customs. Whether you like it or not...

SCHIEFFER: Yeah.

Sen. KERRY: ...Iraqis should be doing that.



lol, yeah, iraqis should be 'terrorizing' each other i guess....at least, i think that's what he means...or maybe he just misspoke AGAIN.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

And there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the--of--the historical customs, religious customs. Whether you like it or not...

SCHIEFFER: Yeah.

Sen. KERRY: ...Iraqis should be doing that.



lol, yeah, iraqis should be 'terrorizing' each other i guess....at least, i think that's what he means...or maybe he just misspoke AGAIN.

Yes he did,again! People have said Kerry's not running for office(but he is). He wants the stage,no doubt, but there is such a 'splintering' in the Dems camps. Kerry and Hillary and Gore will polarize voters to the extreme! Campaigns are the dirtiest part of the business(I hope) and hopefully there will be restraints on further personal attacks.