Dubai Esc. Out

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i don't understand a lot of it either...but i guess it's the same as people begging for winter in the heat of the summer, and then when winter comes....

azeri is a good example to me...when she was winning everything, everything was just peachy. than she slipped a bit, and then faced males...suddenly it was 'cruel' to run her, she'd 'done enough'. same as when funny cide runs....yet, many who post like that are the first to complain when a horse retires at the end of his three year old season. it's too soon, they should run them more, they haven't done enough. you can't have it both ways. well, apparently some think you can.
personally i don't care who spends what, they're all filthy rich and tossing around money like it grows on trees...whoopie for them. but i don't think money is behind the sheiks thoughts on retiring bernardini...he said he is looking at different ways of getting a derby winner-what he's done so far hasn't worked, so why not try to breed one--at his showcase farm he re-built from the ground up? i think he figures why wait another year to get started....

also, the meyerhoffs gambled big time and won with spectacular bid, his four year old season was a loss money-wise, but probably contributed to the syndication fee he ended up getting, far higher than had he quit at three.

Azeri was spoiled in her prime. She was not allowed to show her talent as a 4 year old. Her last race was not that bad, but compared to what she was. Sad. There is a point when a great horse is no longer. Bernardini retired at 3 after 8 or 9 races...

If Funny Cide is not injured, and still has the desire to get out on the track; Let him run. He was a great story, a very good 3 year old, but never a great horse. We apparently need more geldings. We will never know what Bernardini is unless this last race allows him to show how special he might be. It would be nice for him to find big trouble, gut it out, and romp. That would be the only satisfactory outcome to what looks to be a very short display of talent. We got no history anymore. No watching a horse adapt with age to grow into a legend. Thats gone.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

And as a 4 year old she won horse of the year, so how was she not allowed to show her talent? And it's not like when she was with Lukas as a 6 year old she dodged anyone.

First of all as a 3 yo in the BC in Arlington she would have beaten any horse on that track. She was the best horse. How can you like her 4 yo campaign when the design was to beat up on weak female fields in order to break a winning streak record? Her career in her prime was all about setting a flippn record, beating up on horses she had trounced over and over.

She should have been running with the boys. She was that good. That is what she should have been doing when she was 4. She was allowed to rot. The horse lost interest imo. When Lukas took her she was still very good, but not a good as she could have been. So we did not get to see a horse perform at her best. Thats the way I feel about Azeri.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Um no, check your facts. She was 4 when she won the BC at Arlington. She only ran twice as a 3 year old, her maiden race in November, and NW1X in December. She was HOY as a 4 year old, and at 5 lost once, in the Lady's Secret, came out of the race injured, and was kept out of the BC that year, which was in her home state of California. She was then transferred to lukas as a 6 year old. And I don't know if "allowed to rot", is the phrase I think of when a horse wins 12 of 14 and 8 grade 1's in a 2 year span, but hey that's just me.

I stand corrected on her age. And I thank you.

But Linda de la french name ran her against inferior competition in her prime imo. She could take all the G1's she wanted against her sex. She needed to run against males. Let us also remember Linda wanted her retired because of her severely bowed tendon that never showed up. And her campaign was set up to win, not compete. When you get a horse this good, I want them challenged. She was not at 4 and 5. No O. Board type campaign for Azeri. I would rather see her in the mile at the BC though. Or the Turf. But O. Board really is a horse that has nothing to prove... at least I can say that about one horse. A European horse.

I like to watch challenges. I like watching really good horses beat each other back and forth. Ali-Frazier... I guess this is all a pipe dream now. Way in the past. Too bad. Maybe I should get more heavily into the European races where some rivalries get established?

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by pgardn

And her campaign was set up to win, not compete.

so if that is a problem, then what are all these other owners doing trying to win races? they may as well enter then in way above their heads for the sake of "competing."

damn right her campaign was mapped out to WIN, not to compete. no matter how much you want it to be otherwise, it is a business, plain and simple. and that business is winning races.

sorry if you wanted to see her up against males as a five year old. winning races is more important than the industry-wide standard of excellence: being sporting in the eyes of pgardn.

any smart owner on earth would agree, this business is about winning races, not about making people happy. ****, i don't even own horses and i can understand that.

boo hoo dude.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

so if that is a problem, then what are all these other owners doing trying to win races? they may as well enter then in way above their heads for the sake of "competing."

damn right her campaign was mapped out to WIN, not to compete. no matter how much you want it to be otherwise, it is a business, plain and simple. and that business is winning races.

sorry if you wanted to see her up against males as a five year old. winning races is more important than the industry-wide standard of excellence: being sporting in the eyes of pgardn.

any smart owner on earth would agree, this business is about winning races, not about making people happy. ****, i don't even own horses and i can understand that.

boo hoo dude.

Yes, you are exactly right. When I'm looking for a spot to run a horse, in general I look for the easiest spot with the biggest purse. If the horse is a really good horse, she is probably going to take on the best horses eventually and I would want her to. But I would want to map out a realtively easy schedule to get there. For example, even with a gelding like Lava Man, I think the owners have handled him perfectly the last few months. They have kept him on his home turf and won some big purses against moderate competition and now they will take on Bernardini in the $5 million race. There would have been no reason for them to ship back east and take on Bernardini in the Jockey Club Gold Cup. What for? They'll take him on in the $5 million race. There was no reason to try to face him sooner. That is the same type of strategy I would use with almost any horse. That might not be a great example because it was pretty much a no-brainer to run LM in the Pacific Classic and the Goodwood. That was pretty much just common sense. But from the way some people talk maybe not. Some fans almost sound like they would want to ship all over the country and look for the toughest spot every race. You obviously don't want to do that beacuse you want your horse to be 100% for the big race, which for LM is the BC Classic.

[SniperSB23]

From today's Times Union:

Dubai Escapade won't run

When last seen, a 4-year-old filly named Dubai Escapade was dominating the Grade I Ballerina at Saratoga Race Course.

She won't be running Saturday against the boys in the $2 million Sprint.

Dubai Escapade has inflammation in her front ankle, but it seemed as if the filly wouldn't race even if she had been healthy. That's because of Henny Hughes, the favorite for the Sprint.

Henny Hughes is owned by Zabeel Racing International, run by Sheikh Rashid from Dubai. Dubai Escapade is owned by Sheikh Mohammed's Darley Stable. Mohammed is Rashid's father.

"If Henny Hughes wasn't in there, it would be a no-brainer, we would definitely be running," Eoin Harty, Dubai Escapade's trainer, said.

Harty knows his filly would have to run the race of her life to beat the boys. Dubai Escapade has won six of eight career starts, all against fillies.

Fillies won three of the first 22 runnings of the Sprint. Before he left for Lexington on Tuesday morning, Harty allowed a visitor to go into the stall and take a look at his muscular filly.

"She is a huge physical specimen," Harty said. "If that is what rocks your boat -- looking at impressive race horses -- this will rock your boat."

The defection of Dubai Escapade allows Lewis Michael, who has one win in eight starts this year, to get into the Sprint.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Yes, you are exactly right. When I'm looking for a spot to run a horse, in general I look for the easiest spot with the biggest purse.

And you think the patrons enjoy this. And dont say the patrons dont matter because they do in the long run. The patrons would want your horse to go into a competitive race, not one your horse rolls. And of course you find and easy spot. But what if every spot was competitive. Your patrons, the bettors will bet your race. And purses will rise.

WTH do they need slots at tracks Rupert? Why cant the industry stand on its own? Such sort sided views. Of course I understand your position. It is totally reasonable. But... Is it possible to look at it from a broader perspective with the future of the industry in mind? Nah. You dont need to save racing. You cant save racing. The decline continues. You play with the cards you are dealt and dont worry about what you cannot control. Better racing with larger purses.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by pgardn

And you think the patrons enjoy this. And dont say the patrons dont matter because they do in the long run. The patrons would want your horse to go into a competitive race, not one your horse rolls. And of course you find and easy spot. But what if every spot was competitive. Your patrons, the bettors will bet your race. And purses will rise.

WTH do they need slots at tracks Rupert? Why cant the industry stand on its own? Such sort sided views. Of course I understand your position. It is totally reasonable. But... Is it possible to look at it from a broader perspective with the future of the industry in mind? Nah. You dont need to save racing. You cant save racing. The decline continues. You play with the cards you are dealt and dont worry about what you cannot control. Better racing with larger purses.

I think there are a number of reasons that the sport is not doing well. I don't think the reason you gave is one of them. If an owner wants his horse's value to go up, he has to run the horse in big races. There's no such thing as a really easy spot in a graded race. You might find a relatively easy spot but overall the graded stakes races are very competetive beacuse that's where all the money is.

I'm not even sure what you are talking about. Which horses this year were run in weak races to the detriment of the sport? Name me some of the horses and tell me which races they should have run in.

One of the things that I think is killing the sport is all the exotic wagers. The take is bigger and it causes people to lose at a much faster rate. In addition, it takes all the money out of the win, place and show pools so these pool are not very big. A big bettor can't even make a big bet into these pools unless it's a really big race. The pools are simply too small. A big bet will kill your odds. For example, I was just watching a Maiden Special weight race at Laurel. There was a horse that went off at 8-1 in the race. This horse only had $6,500 on him to win. If you were a big bettor, you could not have bet $5,000 to win on that horse. A $5,000 bet would have knocked that horse down to 9-2. The pools are so small that it chases all the big bettors away. The win pools would be much bigger if we didn't have all these trifectas, superfectas, pick-3s, pick-4s, etc. when I used to go to the track back in the 1980s, all they had was 3 exacta races a day. There were no trifectas, pick-3s, superfectas, etc. , yet the track was jammed. You would get over 25,000 people out there every Saturday and the win pools were huge. Even on a Wednesday there would be over 15,000 people out there.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

so if that is a problem, then what are all these other owners doing trying to win races? they may as well enter then in way above their heads for the sake of "competing."

damn right her campaign was mapped out to WIN, not to compete. no matter how much you want it to be otherwise, it is a business, plain and simple. and that business is winning races.

sorry if you wanted to see her up against males as a five year old. winning races is more important than the industry-wide standard of excellence: being sporting in the eyes of pgardn.

any smart owner on earth would agree, this business is about winning races, not about making people happy. ****, i don't even own horses and i can understand that.

boo hoo dude.

You made my point exactly. The reason this sport is not near as popular as it once was is this short-sighted pea-brained attitude. This is why slots have been put into supplement purses. This is why tracks get into trouble. The game is not as enteraining like it once was. Of course owners try to win races. But what if the races provided challenges that pit good horses against each other. No entertainment. This is an entertainment industry going down the tubes.

Its good you posted this. It will not last as a viable business if it does not provide entertainment. Thats what you guys dont get. Short term view. You look at a business and of course as an owner you try to find easy spot. But who pays for the GD purse in the long run smart guy? If people dont find the betting entertaining, then good by purse money.

Can you imagine. Delware offering 60K Md Sp wt. purses because of slot supplementation. The industry cant survive on its own unless it is sliced up a great deal. Wonderful. The industry is having trouble standing on its own merits and thats sad. If you cant fathom that, I feel for you.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Its good you posted this. It will not last as a viable business if it does not provide entertainment. Thats what you guys dont get. Short term view. You look at a business and of course as an owner you try to find easy spot. But who pays for the GD purse in the long run smart guy? If people dont find the betting entertaining, then good by purse money.

so i take this as your admission that you don't bet on races anymore because they aren't "entertaining?"

Since I assume that you still wager on races even through your clear disgust for the sport....then i contend that THAT, is "who pays for the GD purse" smart guy. if you've got a brilliant idea of how to make the game more entertaining, let's hear it. But I am pretty darn sure that you telling someone else what to do with their money and their investment is not the answer.

I may be young, but I am smart enough to know that's not how the world works -- people like you don't get to tell people like them what to do with the things they own, having bought with their own money. Almost Orwellian actually -- it seems you've got a really great direction for us to be heading in here, wiseguy.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

so i take this as your admission that you don't bet on races anymore because they aren't "entertaining?"

Since I assume that you still wager on races even through your clear disgust for the sport....then i contend that THAT, is "who pays for the GD purse" smart guy. if you've got a brilliant idea of how to make the game more entertaining, let's hear it. But I am pretty darn sure that you telling someone else what to do with their money and their investment is not the answer.

I may be young, but I am smart enough to know that's not how the world works -- people like you don't get to tell people like them what to do with the things they own, having bought with their own money. Almost Orwellian actually -- it seems you've got a really great direction for us to be heading in here, wiseguy.

Cooperation between all the tracks and racing entities. A true National Authority like other major sports have. If NASCAR can make a mint by incessantly running automobiles around a track, I should certainly think horse racing could stand on its own. This is one of the most fractured entertainment industries in the country.

And for Christ sakes I am not telling anybody what to do with their horses. I am saying this sport is dying a slow death. Do you get that Mr. 1984? Or it would be communistic for diff. entities with in the sport to unite? Good lord.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I may be young, but I am smart enough to know that's not how the world works -- people like you don't get to tell people like them what to do with the things they own, having bought with their own money. Almost Orwellian actually -- it seems you've got a really great direction for us to be heading in here, wiseguy.

I totally agree with you. It's amazing how people think they can tell other people how to invest and spend their money. How in the world can you tell a guy that he should risk millions of dollars by racing his horse an extra year?

Many of these people who do the criticizing would not even risk $100 of their own money on a horse. Yet they would not hesitate to bash an owner for retiring a horse. They expect an owner to fork out millions of dollars to insure a horse for an extra year and also take the risk of the horse dropping millions of dollars in value if the horse doesn't perfom as well the next year.

I would never criticize an owner for selling a horse or for retiring a horse. Why should a guy foresake millions of dollars just for the hell of it. I doubt these same people who crititicize these owners would even foresake a few hundred dollars for the entertainment of others. If these people ever make several million dollars, we will see if they are as sporting as they expect other millionaires to be.

I hope Pgardn gets lucky and somehow makes $20 million the next few years. If he does, we'll see if he spends a few million dollars on horses. If he doesn't, we can all criticize him and tell him if he was a true fan, he would be a sport and spend a few million dollars on horses like some of the other millionaires out there. If he does spend a few million dollars on horses and happens to get a great horse, we can all criticize him if he decides to retire the horse and syndicate him for $30 million. We can tell him that he should run the horse another couple of years.