Dustin Hoffman, Nick Nolte join 'Luck' cast

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Come on Freddy, you can't be serious about comparing the mafia and horse racing. The mafia didn't care about the perception, everyone knows that they weren't chiorboys. They also didn't own/run a sport that is struggling to survive. Many people already have a negative vison of the sport and even though it's just entertainment, I believe some people can't seperate that from the real truth (Oh wait some of that stuff on the show is spot on accurate).

Does anyone remember a show on ESPN called playmakers? It was a series about a fictional football team playing in a pro league. It pretty much covered everything, from behind the scenes at practices, in the GM's office, to drugs on and off the field. Apparently the NFL wasn't to keen on the show, the rumors were that ESPN cancelled it because if they didn't, ESPN would lose all chance from showing NFL games on the network. But the point is, that show was entertainment as well, but it certainly made you think twice about what really goes on behind the scenes.

Obviously the NFL is a bit stronger that racing , but I really think that anything negative in the show impact the sport in a negative way.

It will have zero effect on real racing regardless if it the geatest hit in HBO history or the worst flop ever. You think my girlfriend gives a darn about betting on a horse race? She has been to the Derby 4 times BC 3 and a few Belmonts. She could care less about racing unless I tell her we are going and then its all about what shoes she needs to buy with whatever new hat and dress. Not to mention were we are staying and what places are we going to dinner. You think the public doesnt know horses breakdown. geez math they unfortunately have seen the best on the biggest days breakdown for years now?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by freddymo

It will have zero effect on real racing regardless if it the geatest hit in HBO history or the worst flop ever. You think my girlfriend gives a darn about betting on a horse race? She has been to the Derby 4 times BC 3 and a few Belmonts. She could care less about racing unless I tell her we are going and then its all about what shoes she needs to buy with whatever new hat and dress. Not to mention were we are staying and what places are we going to dinner. You think the public doesnt know horses breakdown. geez math they unfortunately have seen the best on the biggest days breakdown for years now?

Then although you completely missed my point which was contraian to those that hoped it would draw more fans, we come to an agreement on the result. The show basically hit on EVERY negative sterotype and situation involved with the sport. What's next a cameo by Dick Dutrow? Funny how people bash the ESPN guy for his failed attemt humor but applaud Luck who protrayed every negative sterotype associated with the sport.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by jms62

Then although you completely missed my point which was contraian to those that hoped it would draw more fans, we come to an agreement on the result. The show basically hit on EVERY negative sterotype and situation involved with the sport. What's next a cameo by Dick Dutrow? Funny how people bash the ESPN guy for his failed attemt humor but applaud Luck who protrayed every negative sterotype associated with the sport.

Really winning 2 mil sux? Dutrow character would be an amazing story. Sleeping in a barn broke, wild gambler, starts training better horses etc. Dutrows real story would be incredible entertain now that you mention it

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Really winning 2 mil sux? Dutrow character would be an amazing story. Sleeping in a barn broke, wild gambler, starts training better horses etc. Dutrows real story would be incredible entertain now that you mention it

I would love to see a character based upon Crist's book "Betting on Myself." There are some really fascinating people that make up racing, but it sounds like the show choose to create characters that fullfill the stereotype of horse racing.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I would love to see a character based upon Crist's book "Betting on Myself." There are some really fascinating people that make up racing, but it sounds like the show choose to create characters that fullfill the stereotype of horse racing.

How many attractively dressed ladies with loose leafs of the days entries do you find on an odd friday night in Jan at penn nat.. Save you I think there was perhaps on or two other women with a full set of teeth. The racetrack isnt exactly the Met after the nutcracker during Christmas.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by freddymo

How many attractively dressed ladies with loose leafs of the days entries do you find on an odd friday night in Jan at penn nat.. Save you I think there was perhaps on or two other women with a full set of teeth. The racetrack isnt exactly the Met after the nutcracker during Christmas.

And Keeneland, Saratoga, Del Mar, etc. are exactly Charles Town on a Tuesday night.

Don't get you're point Fred... I've stayed out of the discussion because I don't think this show will bring 1 person to, or lose 1 person from the track. Nor will it change anyone's perception of the sport in general - it's a non issue.

As far as the "typical" stereotypes - the old adage that "stereotypes exist, because they're true" may be what they're are trying to go for - I've highlighted 4 of them in my previous post - that's the only point I made.

There are a tons of normal, well adjusted, intelligent folks on here and at the track. Of course a story about them would be the epitome of boring.

I'm not judging the entire series on one episode - The pilot was horrendous in my opinion, not because of they chose to exploit these stereotypes, but because it just flat out sucked.

[Antitrust32]

it's an action/drama HBO series. Not a documentary on horse racing. I think, in this case, it falls under the "any publicity is good publicity" phrase.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Well, aside from the debate as to whether it can possibly bring fans to the track (I highly doubt that it will affect attendance either way, regardless) is the discussion around the entire basis of the first episode - as jms62 points out-

• Opening scene is of a criminal getting out of prison and immediately inquiring about his horse, which felons can't own apparently, and his scheme to hide the ownership so he doesn't get caught.
  
• A trainers sandbagging his charge to run its price up - the only thing missing from that scene was the vet juicing the horse before the race
  
• Degenerate gamblers, not horseplayers, but honest-to-goodness Degenerates, condescendingly monikered as "Railbirds" who are seemingly the only ones interested in what is happening that particular day
  
• Of course the obligatory breakdown, replete with exaggerated snapping sound effects and blood spraying out.

So it goes... I couldn't care less who does or doesn't watch this - What I can say for a complete certainty is that the breakdown scene turned off every single non-horse racing person I know that watched it, from tuning in again to it. And again, I couldn't care less.

In the end, the pilot did nothing to hold interest, develop any sort of connection to any of the characters, because almost all of the dialogue was idiotic, over simplified prattle played by over emoted character actors trying desperately to make their characters known through a horrific script.

It was terrifyingly reminiscent of the pilot for "John from Cincinnati".

I hope is gets better, will watch, but sorry I for one thought it was a sub-par effort for HBO.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Well, aside from the debate as to whether it can possibly bring fans to the track (I highly doubt that it will affect attendance either way, regardless) is the discussion around the entire basis of the first episode - as jms62 points out-

• Opening scene is of a criminal getting out of prison and immediately inquiring about his horse, which felons can't own apparently, and his scheme to hide the ownership so he doesn't get caught.
  
• A trainers sandbagging his charge to run its price up - the only thing missing from that scene was the vet juicing the horse before the race
  
• Degenerate gamblers, not horseplayers, but honest-to-goodness Degenerates, condescendingly monikered as "Railbirds" who are seemingly the only ones interested in what is happening that particular day
  
• Of course the obligatory breakdown, replete with exaggerated snapping sound effects and blood spraying out.

So it goes... I couldn't care less who does or doesn't watch this - What I can say for a complete certainty is that the breakdown scene turned off every single non-horse racing person I know that watched it, from tuning in again to it. And again, I couldn't care less.

In the end, the pilot did nothing to hold interest, develop any sort of connection to any of the characters, because almost all of the dialogue was idiotic, over simplified prattle played by over emoted character actors trying desperately to make their characters known through a horrific script.

It was terrifyingly reminiscent of the pilot for "John from Cincinnati".

I hope is gets better, will watch, but sorry I for one thought it was a sub-par effort for HBO.

I disagree with this. I thought that I got a good feel for the Nick Nolte character, Maybe he finally has "The Horse" in his barn. I'm not sure if non racing fans understand the magnitude of that. I find the railbirds funny, but I kind of wish that they didn't cash in so early in to the show. They could have set that up a little better, but I think they are interesting. God only knows the direction they go in with the shady trainer. I did think the Hoffman/Farina characters were non-events, but since they are the headliners they will obviously develop in future episodes. The bug was also a non event if you ask me.

Hell she's probably thinking about getting a ring on her finger and sending you to the glue factory.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by freddymo

It will have zero effect on real racing regardless if it the geatest hit in HBO history or the worst flop ever. You think my girlfriend gives a darn about betting on a horse race? She has been to the Derby 4 times BC 3 and a few Belmonts. She could care less about racing unless I tell her we are going and then its all about what shoes she needs to buy with whatever new hat and dress. Not to mention were we are staying and what places are we going to dinner. You think the public doesnt know horses breakdown. geez math they unfortunately have seen the best on the biggest days breakdown for years now?

I have to admit Freddy, it's not even the breakdowns. Now granted it's only one episode and I have no idea what's going to be covered. But the thing that concerns me the most is the whole angle/storyline regarding the trainers. We have all been there, "how did that horse improve/end up winning", "Are you kidding me, a horse that's coming off a 4 year layoff wins for fun" "This game is impossible, I'm through with it" and so on. Obviously we are the die hards and love the game too much to actually quit betting, besides we usually factor those angles into our capping anyway. So I worry that fringe players or people who might be interested in the sport might see things like the put-over scene (potential drugs in the future?) and realize that betting on horses is probably proposition. Let alone other factors, such as Takeout, surfaces, biases, pinhead jockeys etc.............. The sport needs bettors to survive and although they did plant a good seed with the whole pick 6 storyline, I have a feeling that the whole shady trainer angle will negate any of the positives that they might have created.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I have to admit Freddy, it's not even the breakdowns. Now granted it's only one episode and I have no idea what's going to be covered. But the thing that concerns me the most is the whole angle/storyline regarding the trainers. We have all been there, "how did that horse improve/end up winning", "Are you kidding me, a horse that's coming off a 4 year layoff wins for fun" "This game is impossible, I'm through with it" and so on. Obviously we are the die hards and love the game too much to actually quit betting, besides we usually factor those angles into our capping anyway. So I worry that fringe players or people who might be interested in the sport might see things like the put-over scene (potential drugs in the future?) and realize that betting on horses is probably proposition. Let alone other factors, such as Takeout, surfaces, biases, pinhead jockeys etc.............. The sport needs bettors to survive and although they did plant a good seed with the whole pick 6 storyline, I have a feeling that the whole shady trainer angle will negate any of the positives that they might have created.

Big cast big money behind it, very strong producers, not some sh!!tty espn production give it time