Occupy Wall Street

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by jms62

Percentages are meaningless unless you have limited rightoffs. They are not paying anything near 35% hence Warren Buffets statements.

Warren Buffett's statement is true because A., he makes all of his money on investments, and B., the capital gains rate is lower than the federal income tax rate paid by his "secretary." It has nothing to do with income tax percentages or "rightoffs" as you put it.

Are you saying that capital gains and dividends should be taxed at the same rate as income? Because if so, that is beyond a horrible idea.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Warren Buffett's statement is true because A., he makes all of his money on investments, and B., the capital gains rate is lower than the federal income tax rate paid by his "secretary." It has nothing to do with income tax percentages or "rightoffs" as you put it.

Are you saying that capital gains and dividends should be taxed at the same rate as income? Because if so, that is beyond a horrible idea.

Wow. Nice response you try and put words in my mouth without addressing the main point of my message which is 35% is meaningless and just a talking point. They don't pay anything near 35% and probably most receive a refund to boot. If you think that I said "Are you saying that capital gains and dividends should be taxed at the same rate as income?" then no wonder you don't see that these people protesting are protesting for you and I.

Their point is that our government is being bought by special interests and they are making rules that benefit those special interests at our expense. If you think that you are or ever will be part of this 1% then you are delusional. Additionally you and the Dino's of the world may not be directly affected NOW however this is like a cancer. As our economy spirals downwards you and your business will directly be affected. As jobs become scarce and DEFLATION takes hold everything you everyworked for will become worth less and less.

[slotdirt]

You really think that most people making over $374k (the 35 percent income tax bracket) are getting a refund? Especially when one includes local, state, and property taxes? Really?

And you have no idea whether or not I'll ever be in the top income tax bracket without looking at my W-2's. I can assure you these people are not protesting on my behalf. Whether or not I'm ever lucky enough to make that much money, I'll still never agree with the premise that rich people need to be taxed at a higher percentage simply because they're rich.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

You really think that most people making over $374k (the 35 percent income tax bracket) are getting a refund? Really?

If they have good accountants then yes or at least pay far less than 35% which is my point. Until you can prove otherwise then what I said has about as much merit as you insinuating that most making over 374 pay 35%. Agree?

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by jms62

If they have good accountants then yes or at least pay far less than 35% which is my point. Until you can prove otherwise then what I said has about as much merit as you insinuating that most making over 374 pay 35%. Agree?

"Far" less? Since you seem to be a federal income tax policy expert, I think the onus is clearly on you to prove the effective tax rate of the various income brackets. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that people in the 15 percent tax bracket are also paying less than 15 percent all things considered. Agreed?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

You really think that most people making over $374k (the 35 percent income tax bracket) are getting a refund? Especially when one includes local, state, and property taxes? Really?

And you have no idea whether or not I'll ever be in the top income tax bracket without looking at my W-2's. I can assure you these people are not protesting on my behalf. Whether or not I'm ever lucky enough to make that much money, I'll still never agree with the premise that rich people need to be taxed at a higher percentage simply because they're rich.

Top tax bracket is FAR FAR FAR away from my point that you will never be amongst the 1%. So getting back to the point tell me why these people are not protesting on your behalf?

Are you for banks being bailed out at our expense?

Are you for those people bringing us to the edge not being prosecuted and in fact receiving huge severances and bonuses for those who stayed?

Are you for special interests buying legislation that further helps them and hurts you?

Are you for jobs being shipped overseas and cheap foriegn labor being imported so companies can reach short term goals while in effect firing thier customers?

I think you probably have a lot more in common with those people than you think but are still clinging to this Republican v Democrat thing.. They both are fuking evil and whoever is in charge won't change a thing.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by jms62

Top tax bracket is FAR FAR FAR away from my point that you will never be amongst the 1%. So getting back to the point tell me why these people are not protesting on your behalf?

Are you for banks being bailed out at our expense?

Are you for those people bringing us to the edge not being prosecuted and in fact receiving huge severances and bonuses for those who stayed?

Are you for special interests buying legislation that further helps them and hurts you?

Are you for jobs being shipped overseas and cheap foriegn labor being imported so companies can reach short term goals while in effect firing thier customers?

I think you probably have a lot more in common with those people than you think but are still clinging to this Republican v Democrat thing.. They both are fuking evil and whoever is in charge won't change a thing.

Agree with just about everything you say....folks are so blinded by party politics that they don't see what's going on all around them. Both the right and the left are fed up with business as usual and if the folks in power don't wake up soon, things are gonna get nasty, history tells us that the masses will eventually rise up against what they see as blatant unfair treatment. Nothing is as simple as the sound-bite mentality this country has embraced, difficult problems require difficult solutions but they also require honesty, fairness (to all, not the wealthy few) and leadership...otherwise systems break down and chaos follows.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by jms62

Top tax bracket is FAR FAR FAR away from my point that you will never be amongst the 1%. So getting back to the point tell me why these people are not protesting on your behalf?

Are you for banks being bailed out at our expense?

Are you for those people bringing us to the edge not being prosecuted and in fact receiving huge severances and bonuses for those who stayed?

Are you for special interests buying legislation that further helps them and hurts you?

Are you for jobs being shipped overseas and cheap foriegn labor being imported so companies can reach short term goals while in effect firing thier customers?

I think you probably have a lot more in common with those people than you think but are still clinging to this Republican v Democrat thing.. They both are fuking evil and whoever is in charge won't change a thing.

How do you know what my political beliefs are? Please name me the special interests that have bought legislation that has helped them and hurt me? I want specifics, i.e., actual pieces of legislation. There's actually a pretty good argument that the one major bill that was passed as a result of the financial crisis (Dodd-Frank) has hurt consumers a lot more than helped them.

On the rest of your points (that these people are protesting on my behalf) there's not a thing that you mentioned that ranks on my radar screen of issues that merit protests. If you don't like how the free market works, there are plenty of other places in this world where it doesn't. I encourage you to visit them.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

How do you know what my political beliefs are? Please name me the special interests that have bought legislation that has helped them and hurt me? I want specifics, i.e., actual pieces of legislation. There's actually a pretty good argument that the one major bill that was passed as a result of the financial crisis (Dodd-Frank) has hurt consumers a lot more than helped them.

On the rest of your points (that these people are protesting on my behalf) there's not a thing that you mentioned that ranks on my radar screen of issues that merit protests. If you don't like how the free market works, there are plenty of other places in this world where it doesn't. I encourage you to visit them.

Typical response

A. How do you know what my (Fill in the Blank) are?
B. Please name me the (Fill in the Blank) . I want specifics
C. If you don't like how the (Fill in the Blank) works, there are plenty of other places in this world where it doesn't. I encourage you to visit them

Seriously are you fuking 10?

[slotdirt]

Dude, you make like 34 blanket statements, I ask for specifics, and I'm the one who's ten? Obfuscate much?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Whether or not I'm ever lucky enough to make that much money, I'll still never agree with the premise that rich people need to be taxed at a higher percentage simply because they're rich.

Small point ... that's not what they are saying, and we have a progressive, not regressive, tax system.

And: Warren Buffett released some of his income tax information today

Earned: $63 million last year
Paid less than $7 million in federal income tax.

Mr. Buffett's adjusted gross income was $62,855,038 in 2010, according to the letter, while his taxable income was $39,814,784. He said he paid $15,300 in payroll tax, and $6,923,494 in federal income tax. That made for an effective tax rate of 17.4%.

According to the Tax Policy Center, a nonpartisan group, the average tax rate for taxpayers in the middle quintile—those earning between $34,000 and $60,000 a year—is 12%, including payroll and income taxes. Those earning from $103,000 to $163,000--the top 80% to 90% of earners—pay 18.2%. Those earning from $163,000 to $211,000 pay 19.8%, and those earning from $211,000 to $533,000 pay 20.4%.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...875519978.html

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Small point ... that's not what they are saying, and we have a progressive, not regressive, tax system.

And: Warren Buffett released some of his income tax information today



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...875519978.html

What were Mr. Buffet's claimed charitable deducttions? Under the current tax code he is able to write them off!

Damn charities and rich people who support them!

If Buffet was half a man he'd drop what he was doing and live in a tent on Wall Street.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

What were Mr. Buffet's claimed charitable deducttions? Under the current tax code he is able to write them off!

Damn charities and rich people who support them!

If Buffet was half a man he'd drop what he was doing and live in a tent on Wall Street.

Buffett never announced his charitable deductions, but it is calculated to be about 23 billion - yes billion - dollars to Gates Foundation. Buffett has always said that when he and his wife die, the vast majority of their money will go to Gates Foundation (rather than leave a huge estate to the kids).

Buffett is fully supportive of the OWS movement. Buffett released this information in an attempt to garner congressional support for increasing the tax revenue from the rich by decreasing the loopholes, etc. that allow the more wealthy to pay a far lesser rate than the less wealthy.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Buffett never announced his charitable deductions, but it is calculated to be about 23 billion - yes billion - dollars to Gates Foundation. Buffett has always said that when he and his wife die, the vast majority of their money will go to Gates Foundation (rather than leave a huge estate to the kids)..

Then why bring up his tax rate, not knowing what his deductions were? His tax rate is the max!

Seems to me the culprit you should be blaming is the write off allowed for charitable deductions. Make a sign and get to Wall Street. See how 'NO MORE CHARITABLE DEDUCTIONS' plays.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Buffett is fully supportive of the OWS movement. Buffett released this information in an attempt to garner congressional support for increasing the tax revenue from the rich by decreasing the loopholes, etc. that allow the more wealthy to pay a far lesser rate than the less wealthy.

Uh doesnt this snippet from one of your posts show this to be at least partially untrue?

That made for an effective tax rate of 17.4%(Buffett).

According to the Tax Policy Center, a nonpartisan group, the average tax rate for taxpayers in the middle quintile—those earning between $34,000 and $60,000 a year—is 12%, including payroll and income taxes. Those earning from $103,000 to $163,000--the top 80% to 90% of earners—pay 18.2%. Those earning from $163,000 to $211,000 pay 19.8%, and those earning from $211,000 to $533,000 pay 20.4%.

Unless "far lesser" has a different meaning to some

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by Riot

Small point ... that's not what they are saying, and we have a progressive, not regressive, tax system.

And: Warren Buffett released some of his income tax information today



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...875519978.html

I don't know how many times it has to be stated that Buffett pays 17.4 percent of his earned income to Uncle Sam and not 35 percent because he makes virtually all of his money off investments that aren't subject to the federal income tax. I realize Mr. Buffett is suggesting that people of his ilk should pay higher taxes, but I can't imagine he's suggesting that dividends and capital gains should be taxed at a higher rate. I can assure you that idea would hit many, many more people than just the top echelon of income earners.

In any event, Warren Buffett himself could just stroke a check for $30 billion or so and it would save the government just as much money as letting the Bush tax cuts expire for the current 35 percent tax bracket.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I realize Mr. Buffett is suggesting that people of his ilk should pay higher taxes, but I can't imagine he's suggesting that dividends and capital gains should be taxed at a higher rate.

Why don't you read what Warren Buffett himself has said about that very thing, you know, in the article, about it? Then you won't have to imagine and speculate.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

Wow.

Their point is that our government is being bought by special interests and they are making rules that benefit those special interests at our expense. If you think that you are or ever will be part of this 1% then you are delusional. Additionally you and the Dino's of the world may not be directly affected NOW however this is like a cancer. As our economy spirals downwards you and your business will directly be affected. As jobs become scarce and DEFLATION takes hold everything you everyworked for will become worth less and less.

This has always been and will always be. Please enlighten me as to what country this isn't true?


Our economy isnt headed downward because of the amount of money rich people pay in taxes.