9/4-5 (DMR): Del Mar Derby (G2); Palomar (G2)

[LARHAGE]

Agreed, if Midnight Interlude couldn't beat him with that pace and rail advantage than he is not ever beating him, the Santa Anita turf will be much more to Banned's liking, I couldn't believe how torn and chewed up the turf course is, it's no wonder more horses haven't been injured like Burns, I don't think I would have ran Banned on that course if he were my horse, it's pretty scary looking, I feel for the connections of Burns, Madeline Auerbach was distraught, I really felt bad.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Banned ran a VERY strong race and truly did all the running. Not only was he four wide much of the way but he traveled 65 feet more than the winner. The pace was very ordinary, as evidenced by Extensive and Akkadian staying on as well as they did. If Midnight Interlude didn't beat Banned with their respective trips yesterday than he never will.

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

Agreed, if Midnight Interlude couldn't beat him with that pace and rail advantage than he is not ever beating him, the Santa Anita turf will be much more to Banned's liking, I couldn't believe how torn and chewed up the turf course is, it's no wonder more horses haven't been injured like Burns, I don't think I would have ran Banned on that course if he were my horse, it's pretty scary looking, I feel for the connections of Burns, Madeline Auerbach was distraught, I really felt bad.

Some of this is splitting hairs, but Banned was in the 2 path around the first turn and then eased out to the 4 path on the backstretch, so 'much of the way' was really just on the second turn. And it isn't unfair to make a case that the portion of the course he was on would likely have had the best footing on the ripped up turf. That was certainly the case at Saratoga for a defined portion of the meet when the inside paths were torn up and off pace/stalker types had greatest acceleration rallying wide. Is 20 yards of Trakus 'ground loss' actually a negative if it offered better footing than the uneven, momentum-jarring going inside?

I'd also say that the pace was even and honest at :23.2, :47.4, 1:12.2, 1:36.0, 1:47.4 (elder fillies and mares went in virtually identical splits in the Palomar Monday). I love Banned, but Midnight Interlude ran a tremendously game race and wins with the wire 2 yards closer or further.

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Some of this is splitting hairs, but Banned was in the 2 path around the first turn and then eased out to the 4 path on the backstretch, so 'much of the way' was really just on the second turn. And it isn't unfair to make a case that the portion of the course he was on would likely have had the best footing on the ripped up turf. That was certainly the case at Saratoga for a defined portion of the meet when the inside paths were turn up and of pace/stalker types had greatest acceleration rallying wide. Is 20 yards of Trakus 'ground loss' actually a negative if it offered better footing than the uneven, momentum-jarring going inside?

I'd also say that the pace was even and honest at :23.2, :47.4, 1:12.2, 1:36.0, 1:47.4 (elder fillies and mares went in virtually identical splits in the Palomar Monday). I love Banned, but Midnight Interlude ran a tremendously game race and wins with the wire 2 yards closer or further.

Banned traveled the equivalent of almost 7.5 lengths of extra ground in the course of the race. Gomez is the master on that turf course, routinely riding races at distances less than the average ground coverage statistics based on where they break. He is saving, on average, about two lengths of ground in each two turn turf race this meet from his mounts. He knew he had the best horse and rode him uncharacteristically wide for his tastes, and had his nose where it mattered. If Midnight Interlude wins, or Akkadian, and Banned loses by say, two lengths, given the same setup...he STILL ran the best race in my opinion, and I think the data backs that up unequivocally.

To the inverse, if Midnight Interlude suffers any ground loss, he'd have been a goner.

[Kasept]

Again, there are plenty of occasions where being on a wider path with better footing and losing ground can be preferable and the ground loss is moot. That happened repeatedly during the meet here during the period where the inside was shredded wheat. Banned had his nose where it mattered? That's funny. He won by happenstance at the finish with both he and Midnight Interlude running races good enough to win. And under what set of circumstances does Midnight Interlude 'lose ground and become a goner' seeing as how he was on the lead every step? There was a different set of challenges involved in the way he approached the race that is going unappreciated.

I don't have a dog in the hunt as I didn't cap the race seriously or bet it. But when Banned came to the leaders he looked certain to go right on by and met far more resistance than expected. Banned is the horse I prefer and have been rooting for since last year, but Midnight Interlude showed grit in a situation where he had a right to give way.

[PatCummings]

I don't disagree that there are times a turf course can run different inside out, heck, it happens in Europe all the time. The big difference here is that Del Mar has basically, zero rain, the entire meet. Nothing is tearing it apart other than use, which is significantly different than anything that could be said about Saratoga or Fair Grounds.

A review of the two-turn turf races in the final week of the meet indicates no bias towards position or running style, they have played quite true, and that has been the case relatively all through the meet.

I'd use your very retort, Steve, to come right back and suggest the reason Banned didn't catapult by was the ground loss itself.

You might have the opinion that Midnight Interlude showed a bunch of heart by hanging in gamely, in what happened to be the second-slowest 9 furlong turf race of the meet to that point (though from a small sample of five races).

While proving the opinion is impossible, I don't share yours. To me, Midnight Interlude had a garden trip and was life and death to hold off a horse who had to overcome a seven+ length deficit of extra ground. I'm chalking it up to agreeing to disagree.