NYRA Knockers TAKE THIS!!!

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I am not making an opinion of Alan Hevesi, but as he is the one where many of these allegations of corruptions stemmed from, it is also important to note that he has subsequently claimed they have cleaned themselves up. You can't believe one and not the other.

I guess there are just some people who feel non-profits are just no good at making money. Reasons include inability to compete for good people (read, compensation) and lack of sense of urgency. I suppose I'm one of those people. And when you have politicians at the State level "reforming" an industry at a time when the key to the vault is up for grabs, people are going to cast a jaundiced eye. I'm not judging Hevesi either. But the story I posted is what you get. It's not just regulation and reform. It's also politics. And when you take most any politician and start peeling the onion, ...

[blackthroatedwind]

I have no problem with the Not-for-Profit vs. for-profit argument and am sure with more knowledge one could easily argue both sides. Certainly the Government involvement that has come with this Not-for-Profit model, along with former administrations, has not necessarily served NYRA particularly well in the past. It has not, however, prevented them from running the most successful year round racing enterprise in the country and that fact should not be lost. In this specific instance I have a great deal of confidence in the current NYRA management team going forward. That is not to suggest, however, that another group could not also do well, with a for-profit model, but in this particular instance I have seen nothing to give me any confidence in the other bidders. From what I have seen, one of these groups would certainly be a poor choice while another has not shown its hand in any way. So, in this particular circumstance I would be more comfortable with the administration of NYRA, but I have no problem with the general argument.

The problem in this thread is a lot of slanderous and untrue allegations were being thrown around by a foolish instigator, with little to no understanding of the situation. The intelligent argument about the future of the franchise, and for-profit vs. not-for-profit, is a much more interesting and enlightened argument that I welcome.

[SniperSB23]

If keeping it in the hands of the NYRA means I'll only have to pay $3 admission and can bring in a cooler full of any food and drink I want then I am all for the NYRA.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

If keeping it in the hands of the NYRA means I'll only have to pay $3 admission and can bring in a cooler full of any food and drink I want then I am all for the NYRA.

Who cares about admissions and costs of refreshments. New Yorkers dont even go to the track with the exception of Saratoga. Big deal if they raise the price of admission. And by the way, it is only $2 to get into Churchill so I don't understand this arguement that admissions would increase. To me that point is a non issue. The issue here is running an organization without having to ask the state for millions of dollars. If I lived in New York and I didnt care about horse racing I would be pissed that millions are going to support a non-profit. I would be even more pissed if I worked at a non-profit hospital and havent had a raise in years and I saw the NYRA getting millions of dollars to bail out a poor business model. Also, I am assuming the NYRA is clean now because no one is really complaining about corruption. However, that stigma will always be there and rightfully so. The new leadership has to change the culture before people can start having confidence in the "new" NYRA.

Teachers----I do not think teachers are under paid at all. People choose to be a teacher. You actually have to go to college and get a Masters. You know the pay going in so it is your choice to make that pay. They work about the same amount of hours as a person who is not a teacher that works a 40 hour a week job in a years time. The benefits, the retirement and the age of retirement are all very attractive. I believe in Indiana you can retire by using a formula--something like years of experience plus age and if that number is 52 or 58 you can retire. What many teachers do in Southern Indiana is to retire from Kentucky and then move over to Indiana to teach and then they pull down 2 retirements. Now find me a job where you can retire at the age of 55 and receive full pension and benefits.

[randallscott35]

Euro,
if you think teachers will be able to hold on to health benefits and pension by the time I'm 55 I have a bridge to sell you. It won't be there....I have no problem with you saying that teachers know the pay going in. Very fair and I really don't complain about. I'm much more angry when they say teachers are overpaid. Last I looked I got about a 3% raise last year. The cost of living in New Jersey went up by 3.5%. Do the math, I am losing each year, not gaining....I can't think of another job where people say you "should get paid this or that." I don't go to a doctor's office or a mechanic and tell them what I think they are worth. I think the issue is that everyone went to school and everyone thinks they could do the job....You should realize, however, if you have kids or want kids that schools are about as important as it gets. And if you do, you'd also realize that without changes to the pay scale, the teacher pool and moreover the quality of the teachers will continue to diminish. If that's what you want for your kids then that's fine. It's not what I want.

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Euro,
if you think teachers will be able to hold on to health benefits and pension by the time I'm 55 I have a bridge to sell you. It won't be there....I have no problem with you saying that teachers know the pay going in. Very fair and I really don't complain about. I'm much more angry when they say teachers are overpaid. Last I looked I got about a 3% raise last year. The cost of living in New Jersey went up by 3.5%. Do the math, I am losing each year, not gaining....I can't think of another job where people say you "should get paid this or that." I don't go to a doctor's office or a mechanic and tell them what I think they are worth. I think the issue is that everyone went to school and everyone thinks they could do the job....You should realize, however, if you have kids or want kids that schools are about as important as it gets. And if you do, you'd also realize that without changes to the pay scale, the teacher pool and moreover the quality of the teachers will continue to diminish. If that's what you want for your kids then that's fine. It's not what I want.

Well it isnt a mystery that raises are less than inflation. Everyone is in the same boat. I think raises across the board increased 3.4% last year however inflation increased by much more that that. So you are like most workers out there. I don't think anyone is overpaid. I think people are paid they should be paid. If you think you are underpaid then you are over valuing yourself. If you think you are underpaid then you think you are worth more than you really are. And in regards to pension and health benefits, everyone is in the same boat. Who knows if it will be there or not. As of now, you have to assume it is but prepare for the worse. I for one could never be a teacher, just like i couldnt be a DR, mechani, pilot etc etc. The thing is to find what you are passionate about and do it. Ask yourself, what would u do for free and make that your career. My kids do not go to public school, they go to private. However, I think a strong public school system is vital to our society. In addition, I do not wany a teacher teaching my kids because of the money--I want them to teach because of their passion and their desire.

[blackthroatedwind]

There seems to be a major disconnect going on here. NY Racing, aside from the obvious jobs it provides in NY State, also contributes enormous revenue to the State. This is undeniable and should be obvious. The money needed for the " bailout " is a LOAN, something that is done by the State in many situations, and will be paid back.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

There seems to be a major disconnect going on here. NY Racing, aside from the obvious jobs it provides in NY State, also contributes enormous revenue to the State. This is undeniable and should be obvious. The money needed for the " bailout " is a LOAN, something that is done by the State in many situations, and will be paid back.

You really think it will be paid back--I really hope it is, but I think it will be like most situations -- it will be forgiven. The difference between loaning money to a non-prodfit and to a profit company is that the tax revenue is much higher for a profit company than a non-profit.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Who cares about admissions and costs of refreshments. New Yorkers dont even go to the track with the exception of Saratoga. Big deal if they raise the price of admission. And by the way, it is only $2 to get into Churchill so I don't understand this arguement that admissions would increase. To me that point is a non issue. The issue here is running an organization without having to ask the state for millions of dollars. If I lived in New York and I didnt care about horse racing I would be pissed that millions are going to support a non-profit. I would be even more pissed if I worked at a non-profit hospital and havent had a raise in years and I saw the NYRA getting millions of dollars to bail out a poor business model. Also, I am assuming the NYRA is clean now because no one is really complaining about corruption. However, that stigma will always be there and rightfully so. The new leadership has to change the culture before people can start having confidence in the "new" NYRA.

It cost me $25 to get in to Churchill on Oaks Day and $40 on Derby Day. Not to mention they doubled the prices of every item in the concession stands. On Traver's Day I had to pay $5 and all the concessions were the same price. I could have brought in a case of beer if I wanted to as well. I definitely don't want to see Saratoga become like Churchill.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It cost me $25 to get in to Churchill on Oaks Day and $40 on Derby Day. Not to mention they doubled the prices of every item in the concession stands. On Traver's Day I had to pay $5 and all the concessions were the same price. I could have brought in a case of beer if I wanted to as well. I definitely don't want to see Saratoga become like Churchill.

You are singling out two days of racing at Churchill. That is really unfair. Plus it is the two biggest days of racing other than the Breeders Cup. And it cost my buddy $25 for Travers day I think. I know that was the ticket price on their web site. And you can eat for around $6 at churchill at the restaurant. And beers are expensive but who cares. How many times do you go to the track per year?

[ELA]

I don't have a dog in this specific fight, but I race horses in NY so I do have a vested interest.

I think many people tend to look at the present situation -- and then often collapse the present situation with blame. I am not inferring that the present is an inherited situation. I am also not saying NYRA is an "angel" and has never done anything wrong; nor am I saying that everything is their fault. However, everything we see today is not due to NYRA, corruption, management, etc. What we see today, in my opinion, is an accumulation of numerous aspects -- not only of NYRA, management, etc. -- but of the industry in general.

The business model in NY, NY racing as a business and as a sport, has been broken for years. I didn't see any bidders hanging around and pushing for the franchise until the VLT legislation got passed. They didn't start pushing until the VLT deal was made. (I think we can all agree that is the VLT's were not approved -- nobody would be pushing, bidding, etc. on the franchise unless the land was up for grabs as well; or perhaps OTB).

Now, in my opinion, this is reflective of a bigger issue -- alternative revenue source(s) being available to fund the racing business. Keeneland gets a tremendous amount of money, revenue, directly from the sales company. Alternative revenue sources are very often an ancillary, then becoming a primary solution to a present problem -- a problem where a business model is broken. Now that doesn't mean that VLT's are the solution to the racing industry because we know it is not. VLT money will find its way into purse accounts, but we know the trickle-down, trickle-over, etc. effect will not happen. VLT players do not become fans nor do they become visitors to the windows -- not to any significant degree.

What will still hurt is that the tax rate (for the VLT dollars) in NY is extremely high.

You want to argue about non-profit vs. for-profit? Here is what most people do not understand -- non-profit is a tax status, not a management style.

What about Woodbine? What does their business model look like? A partnership between the government and the track, and it has proven successful. It has had a very positive impact on purses. What has it done for pure racetrack attendance, handle, etc.? This is very dangerous -- so at Finger Lakes management decides to invest $4m or so into the VLT side of the facility and goes against getting a turf course. Management said it was a "business" decision, a ROR/ROI decision, etc. But Woodbine has put money into the racetrack side of the facility.

This business and this sport -- not only in NY, but all over -- needs to reinvent itself. Not drastic change that completely changes the business and sport, but change the mindset and management style of running a track as a business and running a business in and around this sport.

Eric

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

You are singling out two days of racing at Churchill. That is really unfair. Plus it is the two biggest days of racing other than the Breeders Cup. And it cost my buddy $25 for Travers day I think. I know that was the ticket price on their web site. And you can eat for around $6 at churchill at the restaurant. And beers are expensive but who cares. How many times do you go to the track per year?

It was $5 for general admission on Traver's Day, as opposed to $3 every other day. I have been to the track about 30-40 days in the past year.