7/2-4 (BEL): Suburban/Dwyer; Futurity/Matron/Bed o' Roses; Prioress

[JJP]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

To be fair, Dream Rush was very good, Fanny Freud as well ( don't forget she got hurt after the race and was retired but her resume holds up just fine for this to be a Grade 1..and Acorn/Test winner Champagne D'Oro was in there as well ). I don't have the complete fields, or all the race records, but overall, if you did a fair evaluation, this race holds up OK in that division.

The Gradings system is far from perfect, and there are many races that deserve reevaluation, but considering it is the only 6F Grade 1 for this division, I think it's grading is relatively warranted, if not moreso. What about the slew of synthetic races that got their Gradings when they were dirt races? Is the Spinster a better Grade 1, or worse, than the Prioress, since the switch in surfaces?

Simply put, you can't fairly cherry pick. The discussion needs to be had in its entirety. I am not saying I am against a serious regrading of US races. But, this race always draws these kinds of comments, and they are not as defendable as it may seem on the surface, and the Grading is far more justifiable than any number of annual races.

I agree 100% re: the synthetic races. The Blue Grass has become a joke. Maybe it looked like I was picking on the Prioress (which I am) but it isn't the only one. But it is a prime example of how the Graded Stakes committee appears to be asleep at the wheel. And when those Kee races are run again, this point will probably be revisited.

[Indian Charlie]

All this talk about downgrading g1s is pointless right now, because due to the lack of quality horses lately, there really aren't many grade 1 caliber races being run anywhere in the USA.

And by the word 'many', I'm being generous.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by JJP

I agree 100% re: the synthetic races. The Blue Grass has become a joke. Maybe it looked like I was picking on the Prioress (which I am) but it isn't the only one. But it is a prime example of how the Graded Stakes committee appears to be asleep at the wheel. And when those Kee races are run again, this point will probably be revisited.

It is not a " prime example " of how the Graded Stakes committee is " asleep at the wheel " and if you read the arguments after my post you will understand that better.

[JJP]

Why do 3 year old fillies need to have a Grade 1 at 6 furlongs? The best fillies invariably run in the longer races. And if there are 3 YO fillies worthy of Grade 1 quality sprinting, they can test their mettle against older horses.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by JJP

Why do 3 year old fillies need to have a Grade 1 at 6 furlongs? The best fillies invariably run in the longer races. And if there are 3 YO fillies worthy of Grade 1 quality sprinting, they can test their mettle against older horses.

Nobody HAS to have anything....but that's an odd turn your argument has now taken.

[JJP]

OK so lets see who's run in there in the past 9 years. I will give you Indian Blessing and Champagne D'oro and Dream Rush. I will even throw in Fanny Freud, although that could be a stretch. I will even throw in this years winner, even though she had a perfect pace setup. Let's say an average of 8 horses per race that would make 72 entrants and 5 worthy of Grade 1 quality. That's about 7%. The evidence speaks for itself. There's been years where the race didn't merit Grade 2, let alone Grade 1.

I don't look for it to be downgraded since this years running was probably the deepest in years. At least this year there was a filly coming in w/a triple digit Beyer.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by JJP

OK so lets see who's run in there in the past 9 years. I will give you Indian Blessing and Champagne D'oro and Dream Rush. I will even throw in Fanny Freud, although that could be a stretch. I will even throw in this years winner, even though she had a perfect pace setup. Let's say an average of 8 horses per race that would make 72 entrants and 5 worthy of Grade 1 quality. That's about 7%. The evidence speaks for itself. There's been years where the race didn't merit Grade 2, let alone Grade 1.

I don't look for it to be downgraded since this years running was probably the deepest in years. At least this year there was a filly coming in w/a triple digit Beyer.

You need to stop arguing from weakness....and maybe even read the posts in this thread....as you have not analyzed the fields in any way.

[JJP]

I've handicapped the races and bet them probably all of the years between 2003-2011. And I keep wondering how the race hasn't been downgraded. And if they didn't downgrade the race between the "glorious" 2003-2006 years, they probably never will.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by JJP

OK so lets see who's run in there in the past 9 years. I will give you Indian Blessing and Champagne D'oro and Dream Rush. I will even throw in Fanny Freud, although that could be a stretch. I will even throw in this years winner, even though she had a perfect pace setup. Let's say an average of 8 horses per race that would make 72 entrants and 5 worthy of Grade 1 quality. That's about 7%. The evidence speaks for itself. There's been years where the race didn't merit Grade 2, let alone Grade 1.

2010: Franny Freud (G2 before), Champagne D'Oro (G1 before/after), Bonnie Blue Flag (G1p after)
2009: Gabby's Golden Gal (G1 before/after), Cat Moves (G1p after), Be Fair (G3, G1p after)
2008: Indian Blessing (G1 before/after), Secret Gypsy (mG2 after),
2007: Appealing Zophie (G1 before), Dream Rush (G2 before, G1 after)
2006: Misty Rosette (G3 before, G1p after), Wild Gams (mG3 before/after), Downthedustyroad (scratched, G1 after), Diplomat Lady (G1, G2 before), Win McCool (G3 after)
2005: Sense of Style (G1, G2 before), Acey Deucey (G2 before), Maddalena (G3 before), Burnish (G3 before)
2004: Bending Strings (G2, mG3 before/G2, mG1p after), Forest Music (G3 before/ G2, G1p after), Friendly Michelle (G3, mG1p before), Bohemian Lady (G3 before)
2003: Chimichurri (G3 before), House Party (G2 before/G3, G1p after), Sensibly Chic (G2 after), Wild Snitch (G3, G1p before), Randaroo (mG2, mG1p after), Belong To Sea (G3 before)
2002: Carson Hollow (G2, G1p after), Spring Meadow (G3, mG1p after), Proper Gamble (G2 before), A New Twist (mG3 before, after)
2001: Cat Chat (G2 before), Above Perfection (G3 after), Harmony Lodge (G1, mG2, mG3 after), Xtra Heat (mG3 before, mG2, mG1p after), Stormy Pick (G1 before)

[JJP]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

2010: Franny Freud (G2 before), Champagne D'Oro (G1 before/after), Bonnie Blue Flag (G1p after)
2009: Gabby's Golden Gal (G1 before/after), Cat Moves (G1p after), Be Fair (G3, G1p after)
2008: Indian Blessing (G1 before/after), Secret Gypsy (mG2 after),
2007: Appealing Zophie (G1 before), Dream Rush (G2 before, G1 after)
2006: Misty Rosette (G3 before, G1p after), Wild Gams (mG3 before/after), Downthedustyroad (scratched, G1 after), Diplomat Lady (G1, G2 before), Win McCool (G3 after)
2005: Sense of Style (G1, G2 before), Acey Deucey (G2 before), Maddalena (G3 before), Burnish (G3 before)
2004: Bending Strings (G2, mG3 before/G2, mG1p after), Forest Music (G3 before/ G2, G1p after), Friendly Michelle (G3, mG1p before), Bohemian Lady (G3 before)
2003: Chimichurri (G3 before), House Party (G2 before/G3, G1p after), Sensibly Chic (G2 after), Wild Snitch (G3, G1p before), Randaroo (mG2, mG1p after), Belong To Sea (G3 before)
2002: Carson Hollow (G2, G1p after), Spring Meadow (G3, mG1p after), Proper Gamble (G2 before), A New Twist (mG3 before, after)
2001: Cat Chat (G2 before), Above Perfection (G3 after), Harmony Lodge (G1, mG2, mG3 after), Xtra Heat (mG3 before, mG2, mG1p after), Stormy Pick (G1 before)

LOL. Take out 2001 and 2002 and you just proved my point.