Vote on Debt Limit increase?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

Not raising the debt ceiling has nothing whatsoever to do with preventing "new spending". Not raising the debt ceiling has nothing whatsoever to do with "reducing the debt".

Not raising the debt ceiling will increase our debt, as it will increase our interest rates permanently.

How does that make any sense? If we don't raise the ceiling, we can't borrow any more money, right? So spending will HAVE to go down to a level where tax revenue alone will support.

As for interest rates going up, is that worse than speeding toward a debt level in both principal and interest that we cannot afford? The party is over and now is the time to pay down the debt and ultimately eliminate it. If our great grandchildren can see that day I'd be impressed.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

How does that make any sense? If we don't raise the ceiling, we can't borrow any more money, right?

Yes, but we can stop spending 100% right now - a complete freeze (which is impossible due to Social Security and Medicare anyway, which increases with the population over time) - and we would still have to raise the debt ceiling to be able to borrow money to pay the debt we've already incurred.

The debt ceiling is mostly just cash flow capability.

So spending will HAVE to go down to a level where tax revenue alone will support.

Our tax revenue needs to be raised back up to where it should be. Obama never should have let the Bush tax cuts renew.

As for interest rates going up, is that worse than speeding toward a debt level in both principal and interest that we cannot afford?

Yes, because it permanently affects our credit rating in the world. Why should we add two percentage points of interest to those that want to borrow money for a house in 2060?

Yes, we have to pay down the debt. But not raising the debt ceiling has little to nothing to directly do with achieving that. The first thing we do is let the Bush tax cuts expire - our debt is cut in half in 10 years, doing nothing else.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, we have to pay down the debt. But not raising the debt ceiling has little to nothing to directly do with achieving that. The first thing we do is let the Bush tax cuts expire - our debt is cut in half in 10 years, doing nothing else.

Before we raise the credit limit or let any tax cuts expire, we need to show good faith paying down the debt, period. This will actually improve our credit rating. We need to be spending less and paying more interest, something Obama has failed to do on both accounts. And before we do that we'll obviously need to elect a new President who believes something other than we need to spend to prevent going bankrupt.

Obama needs more credit just like a alchoholic needs more booze. What he really needs is an intervention. With medicare and SS expenses increasing every year the last thing we need is Obamacare!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Before we raise the credit limit or let any tax cuts expire, we need to show good faith paying down the debt, period. This will actually improve our credit rating. We need to be spending less and paying more interest, something Obama has failed to do on both accounts. And before we do that we'll obviously need to elect a new President who believes something other than we need to spend to prevent going bankrupt.

Obama needs more credit just like a alchoholic needs more booze. What he really needs is an intervention. With medicare and SS expenses increasing every year the last thing we need is Obamacare!

Man, you guys keep relating increasing the debt ceiling to increased spending, we are all in agreement that spending must be cut and money taken in increased but the debt ceiling (as has been clearly shown over and over) is a separate issue. Holding the debt ceiling hostage to draconian spending cuts (effecting only the poor and middle class) is right wing bs...why is that so hard to see??

[timmgirvan]

THEY shoulda had this **** figured out long time ago....blame the bankers with pols in their pockets! It's a national shame...across any and all aisles!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

THEY shoulda had this **** figured out long time ago....blame the bankers with pols in their pockets! It's a national shame...across any and all aisles!

Timm, I agree...but the debt ceiling is not the issue here, greed across the board is!

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Timm, I agree...but the debt ceiling is not the issue here, greed across the board is!

Somer: then we need to have a collective gut-check for the people in charge of our futures.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

THEY shoulda had this **** figured out long time ago....blame the bankers with pols in their pockets! It's a national shame...across any and all aisles!

I agree with that, even the "across all aisles" part.

But look back at the last time Newt and government shutdown loomed. And at a budget that was within our means, and paying our debt down in leaps and bounds. That wasn't very long ago.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Man, you guys keep relating increasing the debt ceiling to increased spending, we are all in agreement that spending must be cut and money taken in increased but the debt ceiling (as has been clearly shown over and over) is a separate issue. Holding the debt ceiling hostage to draconian spending cuts (effecting only the poor and middle class) is right wing bs...why is that so hard to see??

If we are all in agreement that spending must be cut why are we spending so much more and where is the outrage? As I've documented, the increased budget certainly hasn't been spent on interest and to the contrary, while Obama has raised the budget, he has lowered what is allocated towards interest or paying down the debt.

With his demonstrated track record he surely wouldn't put any new tax money towards the debt unless forced into it by some sort of agreement. He'd come up with more do-nothing projects and giveaways to even more foreign countries. This is not right wing BS but rather the right trying to save the country.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

If we are all in agreement that spending must be cut why are we spending so much more and where is the outrage? As I've documented, the increased budget certainly hasn't been spent on interest and to the contrary, while Obama has raised the budget, he has lowered what is allocated towards interest or paying down the debt.

With his demonstrated track record he surely wouldn't put any new tax money towards the debt unless forced into it by some sort of agreement. He'd come up with more do-nothing projects and giveaways to even more foreign countries. This is not right wing BS but rather the right trying to save the country.

You mean like how Obama cut 5 billion out of Medicare, and "obamacare" not only has put 18 million more Americans on purchasing their own private health insurance (getting them off you and I paying for them) but how it extended Medicare's life 12 years?

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

You mean like how Obama cut 5 billion out of Medicare, and "obamacare" not only has put 18 million more Americans on purchasing their own private health insurance (getting them off you and I paying for them) but how it extended Medicare's life 12 years?

Well....like I said "show me demonstrable...not Stated...results

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

You mean like how Obama cut 5 billion out of Medicare, and "obamacare" not only has put 18 million more Americans on purchasing their own private health insurance (getting them off you and I paying for them) but how it extended Medicare's life 12 years?

I'm willing to give it a try. But we need safe-guards (insurance) as it is a big gamble (to at least to 50% of us plus). It's supposed to save money and that's all good. However we need a stop/loss put in at $5 Billion. That's plenty and we can't afford more. If it works? God Bless Obama....