Derby Trail Forums

Go Back   Derby Trail Forums > Main Forum > The Paddock
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-17-2011, 09:04 PM
Kasept's Avatar
Kasept Kasept is offline
Steve Byk
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greenwich, NY
Posts: 44,259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious View Post
The only people upset are the 22 racing fans that frequent these boards that heard it. The reality is that racing is VERY LOW in the rankings of what sports fans watch and care about the most and what he said is true. Racing IS a joke and all of us here know it. Getting upset at him saying it is the same as when we can talk about our own family.....but let someone outside of the family say the same thing and it's grounds for a fight.

I've always thought that Wilbon is one of the most well-rounded sports journalists out there. Very educated and articulate. There probably aren't 100 people watching that show that give a damn about horse racing. I'm not sure there are 100 people in the country that do.
Wilbon is a racist and his disdain for racing is rooted in his racism.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-17-2011, 09:12 PM
TitanSooner TitanSooner is offline
Randwyck
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Los Alamitos
Posts: 1,303
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept View Post
Wilbon is a racist and his disdain for racing is rooted in his racism.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-17-2011, 09:15 PM
miraja2's Avatar
miraja2 miraja2 is offline
Arlington Park
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,157
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept View Post
Wilbon is a racist and his disdain for racing is rooted in his racism.
Why do you say that? I'm not saying you're wrong, I've just never heard that accusation leveled at him before.

As for Wilbon's comments on the show, I didn't see this episode but in years past I always get the feeling that every time the TC season rolls around, Kornheiser acts like he really cares about horse racing, and Wilbon acts like he hates it. My guess is that it is just part of their schtick, and neither really cares, although I don't really know.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-18-2011, 04:47 AM
Kasept's Avatar
Kasept Kasept is offline
Steve Byk
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greenwich, NY
Posts: 44,259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by miraja2 View Post
Why do you say that? I'm not saying you're wrong, I've just never heard that accusation leveled at him before.

As for Wilbon's comments on the show, I didn't see this episode but in years past I always get the feeling that every time the TC season rolls around, Kornheiser acts like he really cares about horse racing, and Wilbon acts like he hates it. My guess is that it is just part of their schtick, and neither really cares, although I don't really know.
Wilbon may not be racist in an overall context, but when he discusses racing -- going back to Kornheiser having including Secretariat in his Top 10 of the Greatest Athletes of the 20th Century Poll -- his rhetoric is tinged with an obvious view of horse racing as a bastion of white, elitist privilege. He has no cultural tie to the game and obviously no interest in its' gambling aspect, so he simply relies on his instinct to dislike the sport because of who and what it historically represents in his mind. I doubt he knows much about how the game was dominated by afro-american trainers and riders during from the post-Civil War until the Gambling Blackout (1908-1910).

That's fine. At this point it's become a schtick on PTI, and every time he says anything about the sport, he just displays a small-mindedness. I stopped watching the show in 2006 when I started doing ATR full time 4-7pm, and even though I'm available to watch now, the two of them have become such caricatures of themselves that I find it difficult to sit through.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-18-2011, 07:59 AM
Revidere's Avatar
Revidere Revidere is offline
Washington Park
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 861
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept View Post
Wilbon may not be racist in an overall context, but when he discusses racing -- going back to Kornheiser having including Secretariat in his Top 10 of the Greatest Athletes of the 20th Century Poll -- his rhetoric is tinged with an obvious view of horse racing as a bastion of white, elitist privilege. He has no cultural tie to the game and obviously no interest in its' gambling aspect, so he simply relies on his instinct to dislike the sport because of who and what it historically represents in his mind. I doubt he knows much about how the game was dominated by afro-american trainers and riders during from the post-Civil War until the Gambling Blackout (1908-1910).

That's fine. At this point it's become a schtick on PTI, and every time he says anything about the sport, he just displays a small-mindedness. I stopped watching the show in 2006 when I started doing ATR full time 4-7pm, and even though I'm available to watch now, the two of them have become such caricatures of themselves that I find it difficult to sit through.
He's obviously never seen this board before!
__________________
Revidere
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-18-2011, 12:13 PM
miraja2's Avatar
miraja2 miraja2 is offline
Arlington Park
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,157
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept View Post
Wilbon may not be racist in an overall context, but when he discusses racing -- going back to Kornheiser having including Secretariat in his Top 10 of the Greatest Athletes of the 20th Century Poll -- his rhetoric is tinged with an obvious view of horse racing as a bastion of white, elitist privilege. He has no cultural tie to the game and obviously no interest in its' gambling aspect, so he simply relies on his instinct to dislike the sport because of who and what it historically represents in his mind. I doubt he knows much about how the game was dominated by afro-american trainers and riders during from the post-Civil War until the Gambling Blackout (1908-1910).
If this is his assertion, wouldn't there perhaps at least be some truth to it in the game today? Or at least, even if it isn't true, I'm not sure it makes someone a "racist" if they wanted to make that argument. Sure things were different in the nineteenth century, but so what?
For example, I think today's Republican Party is also a "bastion of white, elitist privilege." Now, during the 1850s and 1860s the Republicans were the antislavery party and the Democrats were the conservatives. But I don't see how that's a particularly relevant point when discussing politics today. Wouldn't the same be true for horse racing?

On the whole, however, I continue to doubt whether Wilbon gives horse racing enough thought to really hate it for any particular reason. A year or two ago when the topic of Zenyatta was brought up he said something about only caring about her if they were serving up some tasty Zenyatta burgers (or something like that). Now, does he really want to eat a horse burger? I doubt it.
I think its just what passes for comedy on that show.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-18-2011, 12:20 PM
miraja2's Avatar
miraja2 miraja2 is offline
Arlington Park
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,157
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept View Post
the two of them have become such caricatures of themselves that I find it difficult to sit through.
On this point I certainly agree with you.
When it first came on I watched it two or three times a week.
Now I probably watch it two or three times a year.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-17-2011, 11:56 PM
King Glorious's Avatar
King Glorious King Glorious is offline
Atlantic City Race Course
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beaumont, CA
Posts: 4,614
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept View Post
Wilbon is a racist and his disdain for racing is rooted in his racism.
I understand.

It's their thing is correct. Kornheiser brings it up whenever there is a big race where the nation (outside of the 100 of us regs) might be watching and Wilbon gives his "who cares" answer.

Or, he's a racist.
__________________
The real horses of the year (1986-2020)
Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-18-2011, 05:06 AM
Kasept's Avatar
Kasept Kasept is offline
Steve Byk
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greenwich, NY
Posts: 44,259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious View Post
I understand.

It's their thing is correct. Kornheiser brings it up whenever there is a big race where the nation (outside of the 100 of us regs) might be watching and Wilbon gives his "who cares" answer.

Or, he's a racist.
See above for the racial context regarding Wilbon.

You keep repeating (taunting really) the assertion that racing is of interest to some tiny fringe population.. I know you're anxious to produce reaction, but what's your point saying that in a place where nearly 1,000 people regularly engage over their shared pleasure in the sport? If racing's such a joke as you said earlier, move on to so more important avocation and let the rest of us enjoy it.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-18-2011, 05:32 AM
dino dino is offline
Turf Paradise
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 245
Default

Wilbon is definitly a RACIST but I think his distain for racing is more centered around it not being a "cool" sport. He is more into sports where the athletes beat their wives and make the english language sound more like pig latin than english. Maybe racing needs more hip hop
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-18-2011, 09:00 AM
dalakhani's Avatar
dalakhani dalakhani is offline
Del Mar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Washington dc
Posts: 5,277
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dino View Post
Wilbon is definitly a RACIST but I think his distain for racing is more centered around it not being a "cool" sport. He is more into sports where the athletes beat their wives and make the english language sound more like pig latin than english. Maybe racing needs more hip hop
Perhaps Robby albarado is really a black basketball player masquerading as a jockey.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-18-2011, 09:12 AM
3kings's Avatar
3kings 3kings is offline
Oriental Park
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,495
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalakhani View Post
Perhaps Robby albarado is really a black basketball player masquerading as a jockey.


He didn't say black, he said Pig Latin speaking.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-18-2011, 09:56 AM
pointman's Avatar
pointman pointman is offline
Saratoga
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 15,693
Default

Personally, I stopped watching PTI a long time ago. If I want to see clowns, I just go to the circus.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-18-2011, 12:18 PM
miraja2's Avatar
miraja2 miraja2 is offline
Arlington Park
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,157
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dino View Post
make the english language sound more like pig latin than english. Maybe racing needs more hip hop
Yep....its clearly Wilbon who is racist.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-18-2011, 12:45 PM
ateamstupid's Avatar
ateamstupid ateamstupid is offline
Super Mod.. and Super Fly
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 13,036
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dino View Post
Wilbon is definitly a RACIST but I think his distain for racing is more centered around it not being a "cool" sport. He is more into sports where the athletes beat their wives and make the english language sound more like pig latin than english. Maybe racing needs more hip hop
Nothing like countering racism with racism.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-18-2011, 12:50 PM
hoovesupsideyourhead's Avatar
hoovesupsideyourhead hoovesupsideyourhead is offline
"The Kentucky Killing Machine"
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: florida
Posts: 16,278
Default

hes no vince scully
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-18-2011, 05:45 AM
The Devil's Avatar
The Devil The Devil is offline
Monmouth Park
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Spanky's Place
Posts: 768
Default

Quote:
If racing's such a joke as you said earlier, move on to so more important avocation and let the rest of us enjoy it.


Blackball him
__________________
If you are not going to lead get out of the way!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-18-2011, 01:39 AM
horseofcourse horseofcourse is offline
Santa Anita
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Idaho
Posts: 3,163
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept View Post
Wilbon is a racist and his disdain for racing is rooted in his racism.
I'm not sure you have to be a racist to hate horse racing. Just like every major sport, I'm sure there was a massive amount of racism involved in it through the history of America. the dominant jockeys of the late 19th and very early 20th century were African American and that completely disappeared pretty, pretty quickly. The Jimmy Winkfield biography was an interesting read. Perhaps he does have disdain based on racism, but I think it's fairly legit most likely. Is it racism or merely backlash?? Of course today, there would be zero holding back a successful black trainer, owner, jockey etc and the lack of involvement today is more likely circumstantial more than anything.

I see no evidence however Wilbon is a racist, I don't know the man so I guess anything is possible.
__________________
The Main Course...the chosen or frozen entree?!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-18-2011, 04:55 AM
Kasept's Avatar
Kasept Kasept is offline
Steve Byk
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greenwich, NY
Posts: 44,259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by horseofcourse View Post
I'm not sure you have to be a racist to hate horse racing. Just like every major sport, I'm sure there was a massive amount of racism involved in it through the history of America. the dominant jockeys of the late 19th and very early 20th century were African American and that completely disappeared pretty, pretty quickly. The Jimmy Winkfield biography was an interesting read. Perhaps he does have disdain based on racism, but I think it's fairly legit most likely. Is it racism or merely backlash?? Of course today, there would be zero holding back a successful black trainer, owner, jockey etc and the lack of involvement today is more likely circumstantial more than anything.

I see no evidence however Wilbon is a racist, I don't know the man so I guess anything is possible.
Those roles of trainer/jockey disappeared quickly because every state in the country except Maryland and Kentucky banned gambling (1908-10) and the industry shrank to nearly nothing. White trainers and riders got the edge under that scenario, which in that era, you can comprehend easily. Wilbon resents the erroneous image he holds of the sport, and that image has racial undertones.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-18-2011, 07:16 AM
Patrick333 Patrick333 is offline
Fairgrounds
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ewing, NJ
Posts: 1,572
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept View Post
Wilbon is a racist and his disdain for racing is rooted in his racism.
Great post. This could be the post of the year.
__________________
The man who complains about the way the ball bounces is likely the one who dropped it - Lou Holtz
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.