This will effectively kill horse racing

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Horses don't ask for meds to keep them well or pain free. No gastroguard growing wild that they go eat everyday. Your NFL thoughts fail to represent the obvious adults are making decisions for their own behalf. Horses only require such treatment because they are in an environment which is artificial to what they would do naturally. Ultimately, people need to medicate horses responsible but everyones veiw of responsible is different. When dutrow years ago told the press he gives ALL of his horses Winstrol he didnt think he was being iresponsible he really thought it helped them. I never understood why hyperbaric chambers were deemed illegal for use the week of raceday? It's oxygen for g-ds sake? How the heck is that bad fr a horse? because it feels better faster? Anyway my point is comparing humans shooting themselves at halftime of an NFL game is completely differt then making a horse eat 2 butes a day so he can stay fit and train.

The testing levels are what I was comparing though the thought that anyone but the elite of the elite football players can refuse treatment/medication and keep their job is completely misguided. The difference is that the players who take illegal substances are knowingly and willingly cheating. The vast majority of positives in horse racing are things that are only called "cheating" because some lab detected a legal medication above a completely randomly selected level. Giving a horse Winstrol when Dutrow made the comment was a far different story than a baseball player taking them but as usual no one pointed this out. Winstrol is not crack like some people would have you believe.

So are you saying because the horses "dont ask" for meds that we aren't morally and professionally obligated to treat them for their issues?

Thoroughbreds are not found in the wild so comparisons should take this into consideration. The are not a "natural" breed, they are a selected breed.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The testing levels are what I was comparing though the thought that anyone but the elite of the elite football players can refuse treatment/medication and keep their job is completely misguided. The difference is that the players who take illegal substances are knowingly and willingly cheating. The vast majority of positives in horse racing are things that are only called "cheating" because some lab detected a legal medication above a completely randomly selected level. Giving a horse Winstrol when Dutrow made the comment was a far different story than a baseball player taking them but as usual no one pointed this out. Winstrol is not crack like some people would have you believe.

So are you saying because the horses "dont ask" for meds that we aren't morally and professionally obligated to treat them for their issues?

Thoroughbreds are not found in the wild so comparisons should take this into consideration. The are not a "natural" breed, they are a selected breed.

Some race horses have breathing issues that clenbutrol would help most race horses arent given that drug because they have professional/medical need. Most race horses are treated with it because it helps make them run faster, hence the moral and professional argument loose merit.

The problem is time curses most problem but time is boring and expensive and trainers dont earn laying up horses. And owners are bored and want to race immediately so drugs make the trainers and owners get together on the same page. Its a happy marriage unless you are the horse of course.

BTW if most of the ridiculous positives have nothing to do with performance why do give a darn about Dutrow getting a license in KY?

[randallscott35]

Hay oats water

Hay Oats Water

Hay oats Water!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Hay oats water

Hay Oats Water

Hay oats Water!

Never was, never will be.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Never was, never will be.

No reason not to try!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

No reason not to try!

Yeah there is.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

No reason not to try!

If we take away the horses that can't run without a little bute or NSAID, we'll decimate the claiming ranks and have to euthanize thousands of older horses.

I am all for hay, oats, and water, but you need veterinary care and health maintenance of the race horse, too.

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by Riot

If we take away the horses that can't run without a little bute or NSAID, we'll decimate the claiming ranks and have to euthanize thousands of older horses.

Just take away the meds that make some trainers win at high 30-40 some %.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

If we take away the horses that can't run without a little bute or NSAID, we'll decimate the claiming ranks and have to euthanize thousands of older horses.

I am all for hay, oats, and water, but you need veterinary care and health maintenance of the race horse, too.

Not just the claimers, pretty much all classes including stakes horses.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Some race horses have breathing issues that clenbutrol would help most race horses arent given that drug because they have professional/medical need. Most race horses are treated with it because it helps make them run faster, hence the moral and professional argument loose merit.

The problem is time curses most problem but time is boring and expensive and trainers dont earn laying up horses. And owners are bored and want to race immediately so drugs make the trainers and owners get together on the same page. Its a happy marriage unless you are the horse of course.

BTW if most of the ridiculous positives have nothing to do with performance why do give a darn about Dutrow getting a license in KY?

Clembuterol doesnt make horses run faster when you have to stop giving it 4 days before the race. The fact is because of the environment they live in which is dusty, pretty much all horses can benefit from using it without it having any race altering effect.

The idea that time cures all is ridiculous. As I have said many times, no one yet has convinced me yet that thoroughbred horses shouldn't benefit from modern medicine like every other species on the Earth. Virtually no legal medication given to horses harms them if used properly.

Dutrow deserves whatever fate befalls him. He has plenty of other issues outside of medication violations.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Clembuterol doesnt make horses run faster when you have to stop giving it 4 days before the race. The fact is because of the environment they live in which is dusty, pretty much all horses can benefit from using it without it having any race altering effect.

The idea that time cures all is ridiculous. As I have said many times, no one yet has convinced me yet that thoroughbred horses shouldn't benefit from modern medicine like every other species on the Earth. Virtually no legal medication given to horses harms them if used properly.

Dutrow deserves whatever fate befalls him. He has plenty of other issues outside of medication violations.

Why would you stop using a drug 4 days before? So its ok to work your horse in 58 and its not harmful or irresponsble so who cares if the horse runs 1:10 7 days later on it in a race? Testing for a drug that you use daily because the enionment is dusty is silly.

Of course time doesnt cure all but it certainly used instead of drugs that will get them to the races faster

[Riot]

I agree we need uniform punishments for violations across all jurisdictions. That is what is needed, not a zero tolerance rule that will harm the health and well-being horses we race.

We have allowed therapeutic medications, and we have the means to test levels of those drugs to a degree more infitismally smaller than we practically need.

Let me put it this way: bank tellers, who handle alot of money, not infrequently test trace positives for cocaine due to secondary exposure to the trace amounts on money. Trainers have had cocaine positives from drug-using stable help touching their horses and transferring cocaine.

We know which levels of these drugs are therapeutic (a dose that works) and thus we know the level of those drugs that could be "performance enhancing or altering"; and so we know the ineffective doses, or the levels that are too low to work, thus cannot be performance enhancing or altering.

We have to have a zero tolerance for overages that could be performance enhancing, but we have to not punish ridiculously for trace amounts of non-performance-enhancing levels of drugs given at an approved therapeutic level within a proper doctor-patient-client relationship.

Example: I give a slightly colicky horse a pain injection Monday afternoon. I report the administration and dose to the stewards (file the vet report). The horse is fine. A little gas bubble for an hour or so, pain never comes back. It runs Friday. They find a teeny tiny microdose trace of the painkilling drug.

This should be of no concern because a report was filed before the horse raced.

If the amount of drug found is higher, closer to therapeutic levels (showing administration closer than Monday) of course there should be a punishment.

But zero tolerance is silly here, and harms the horse.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Why would you stop using a drug 4 days before? So its ok to work your horse in 58 and its not harmful or irresponsble so who cares if the horse runs 1:10 7 days later on it in a race? Testing for a drug that you use daily because the enionment is dusty is silly.

Of course time doesnt cure all but it certainly used instead of drugs that will get them to the races faster

Duh you have to stop giving it to them 4 days or you will come up with positive test....

Next time you feel sick just take a month vacation...

[Cannon Shell]

Not to mention the legislation is basically a joke. The lack of specifics are frightening. I guess the people calling for 50k and 100 k fines aren't familiar with horse racing outside of the KY Derby.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Not to mention the legislation is basically a joke. The lack of specifics are frightening. I guess the people calling for 50k and 100 k fines aren't familiar with horse racing outside of the KY Derby.

Precisely.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Duh you have to stop giving it to them 4 days or you will come up with positive test....

Next time you feel sick just take a month vacation...

OK to train and work on but not ok to run on race day..WHY?

Sick horses need meds sore horses that get injected to block pain or reduce inflammation are completely different.

Who wouldn'r give a horse drugs to cure a sickness?