Are we getting close to a primetime Derby?

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by OldDog

That's a fair question. If the goal is to increase tv viewers, I'm not sold that an 8 or 9 o'clock post time would accomplish that. Speaking for myself, a 5 or 6 PM post time best meshes with the popular Derby Day party concept, something with which I am quite enamored.

Yeah, but wouldn't parties function just as well into Saturday night?
Don't forget about the West Coast, the Derby goes off in the middle of the afternoon. I would think that you would pick up more viewers out there by having a later post time. Personally for me, I would have less of a chance on seeing the race if it was dead set in the middle of a Saturday afternoon.

The concept that intrigues me is that a network could really dedicate a time block and show more than the Derby to the public. The key is, to make it more about handicapping/racing than fluff pieces.
Maybe they can guarentee some sort of super pick 4 pool and then show all of the involving races.

[OldDog]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Yeah, but wouldn't parties function just as well into Saturday night?
Don't forget about the West Coast, the Derby goes off in the middle of the afternoon. I would think that you would pick up more viewers out there by having a later post time. Personally for me, I would have less of a chance on seeing the race if it was dead set in the middle of a Saturday afternoon.

Again, that's a fair statement. Derby parties notwithstanding, I guess what it comes down to for me is that the Kentucky Derby is an event unto itself, a decidedly traditional event, and I'm more concerned about the event itself than how TV covers it. Derby Day is Derby Day, and I don't want it to change to Derby Night just to (perhaps) pick up some viewers.

Originally Posted by MaTH716

The concept that intrigues me is that a network could really dedicate a time block and show more than the Derby to the public. The key is, to make it more about handicapping/racing than fluff pieces.
Maybe they can guarentee some sort of super pick 4 pool and then show all of the involving races.

TV producers seem to believe that viewers tuning into to Derby Day coverage want to see the fluff, as evidenced by them showing anything but the Woodford Reserve. Man, that steams me. Only during the BC coverage was a little more than casual attention paid to handicapping. I suppose that's what we get in the era of "reality tv" (which is anything but reality).

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by OldDog

That's a fair question. If the goal is to increase tv viewers, I'm not sold that an 8 or 9 o'clock post time would accomplish that. Speaking for myself, a 5 or 6 PM post time best meshes with the popular Derby Day party concept, something with which I am quite enamored.

You can't teach an OldDog new tricks, I suppose.

[jms62]

Will we ever get to see the Woodford Reserve?? My ADW doesn't show it for contractual reasons and the network that is the reason for the contractual reasons failed to show it 2 years in a row.

[ghartman02]

I think it's a great idea, but I'm not sure from a "security" standpoint if that would work, releasing 150,000K after dark. The vast majority of people park away from the track. Churchill's lot is not all that large: so most folks park in the surrounding neighborhoods. The other thing is the infield. Unless you bathe that in light, it may be hard to see to get around (and wager) etc: it's difficult enough during the day: the windows don't have the best lighting. I've attended 40 plus Derbies in my lifetime, and while it's a great day, at around 7p, you're ready to leave.

The NBA and NHL playoffs occur durring that time, and dont forget MLB night games.

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

The NBA and NHL playoffs occur durring that time, and dont forget MLB night games.

And all of them are likely occuring during the day as well as the night. It's still the most popular event on the day, the most known American horse race. Churchill shouldn't be beholden to anything else.

[pba1817]

The Derby is about the only thing horse racing has going that is a positive.. why they would even consider changing it is beyond me. You are not going to gain any added viewers by delaying the post a couple of hours... It is a live sporting event, those who are interested will watch no matter what time post is, those who are kinda interested but not intrigued will do the same thing the rest of us do.. DVR.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by pba1817

The Derby is about the only thing horse racing has going that is a positive.. why they would even consider changing it is beyond me. You are not going to gain any added viewers by delaying the post a couple of hours... It is a live sporting event, those who are interested will watch no matter what time post is, those who are kinda interested but not intrigued will do the same thing the rest of us do.. DVR.

I disagree with this.

First thing is, there is more than one positive thing in racing besides the Derby. (Actually from a handicapping standpoint, I actually don't like the derby. Most of the horses have the same pp's, it just seems like a big crapshoot to me and you need more racing luck than usually to be successful.)

As far as other positive things go, the whole NYRA/NYOTB thing is extremely positive as far as I'm concerned. To already go with the entire Saratoga meet/expierence. Aside from the surface, Del Mar is another popular meet. Santa Anita going back to dirt is positive as well. Eibar Coa walking out of a hosipital is probably the most important and positive news of all. And so on, obviously there are issues with our sport, but then again there are issues with every sport. There is positive news around, you just have to choose to acknowledge it.

As far as the later post goes, how do you know it won't attract more people? Many other sports have moved their playoff games to the evenings (obviously talking weekends here), isn't that strictly for viewership? How do you know that it wouldn't translate over for the Derby? The answer is that you don't? Really what's the worst thing that could happen? Even if they lose a big number viewers, then just chalk it up as a failed expierment and move it back the next year. But if it works, it could be a tremendous success for the event and sport as a whole. I think the risk-reward makes it a no brainer to at least expierment with.

[mbahadur]

Originally Posted by ghartman02

I think it's a great idea, but I'm not sure from a "security" standpoint if that would work, releasing 150,000K after dark. The vast majority of people park away from the track. Churchill's lot is not all that large: so most folks park in the surrounding neighborhoods. .

I work near Churchill Downs and drive through those surrounding neighborhoods on the way to work in the daylight. When I leave work at night, I drive around those surrounding neighborhoods and avoid driving through them. I do not think they are totally safe at night unless you are surrounded by large numbers of people. I stayed at a hotel down the street from Churchill and my car, parked in the hotel parking lot, got broken into during the week of a popular trade show at the nearby convention hall (the police told me the thieves come out during big trade show weeks).

But they will get over 30,000 people this Saturday for night racing -- I think the post time for the Derby Trial is after 9:30pm.

[pba1817]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I disagree with this.

First thing is, there is more than one positive thing in racing besides the Derby. (Actually from a handicapping standpoint, I actually don't like the derby. Most of the horses have the same pp's, it just seems like a big crapshoot to me and you need more racing luck than usually to be successful.)

As far as other positive things go, the whole NYRA/NYOTB thing is extremely positive as far as I'm concerned. To already go with the entire Saratoga meet/expierence. Aside from the surface, Del Mar is another popular meet. Santa Anita going back to dirt is positive as well. Eibar Coa walking out of a hosipital is probably the most important and positive news of all. And so on, obviously there are issues with our sport, but then again there are issues with every sport. There is positive news around, you just have to choose to acknowledge it.

As far as the later post goes, how do you know it won't attract more people? Many other sports have moved their playoff games to the evenings (obviously talking weekends here), isn't that strictly for viewership? How do you know that it wouldn't translate over for the Derby? The answer is that you don't? Really what's the worst thing that could happen? Even if they lose a big number viewers, then just chalk it up as a failed expierment and move it back the next year. But if it works, it could be a tremendous success for the event and sport as a whole. I think the risk-reward makes it a no brainer to at least expierment with.

I disagree with most all of this...

The Derby is the greatest single betting race each year, there is so much value there that if you saved some of your weekly/monthly bankroll specifically for it and fired into that race alone, the ROI is simply awesome. Just because there isn't a blatant 2/5 shot for you to lynch onto doesnt make it a bad betting race...

NYRA = Joke. No matter what they do there, that is a big fat bureaucracy that is destined to fail...

Saratoga = NYRA's saving grace, they will destroy it, just give enough time..

Del Mar is the closest track to me, and it was RUINED by Polytrack... The quality of racing in CA is dwindling fast.

SA and Coa are positives.

As I said in my original post, changing to post time will not have any effect on TV viewership. People who want to see it live, will do so no matter the post. The people who want to record it, will do so as well.

Changing things just for the sake of change is pretty immature in my opinion.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by pba1817

I disagree with most all of this...

The Derby is the greatest single betting race each year, there is so much value there that if you saved some of your weekly/monthly bankroll specifically for it and fired into that race alone, the ROI is simply awesome. Just because there isn't a blatant 2/5 shot for you to lynch onto doesnt make it a bad betting race...

NYRA = Joke. No matter what they do there, that is a big fat bureaucracy that is destined to fail...

Saratoga = NYRA's saving grace, they will destroy it, just give enough time..

Del Mar is the closest track to me, and it was RUINED by Polytrack... The quality of racing in CA is dwindling fast.

SA and Coa are positives.

As I said in my original post, changing to post time will not have any effect on TV viewership. People who want to see it live, will do so no matter the post. The people who want to record it, will do so as well.

Changing things just for the sake of change is pretty immature in my opinion.

Yep, NYRA's a joke. They really fell on their face when the single largest bet taker on their races went belly up practically overnight. Er...

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by pba1817

I disagree with most all of this...

The Derby is the greatest single betting race each year, there is so much value there that if you saved some of your weekly/monthly bankroll specifically for it and fired into that race alone, the ROI is simply awesome. Just because there isn't a blatant 2/5 shot for you to lynch onto doesnt make it a bad betting race...

NYRA = Joke. No matter what they do there, that is a big fat bureaucracy that is destined to fail...

Saratoga = NYRA's saving grace, they will destroy it, just give enough time..

Del Mar is the closest track to me, and it was RUINED by Polytrack... The quality of racing in CA is dwindling fast.

SA and Coa are positives.

As I said in my original post, changing to post time will not have any effect on TV viewership. People who want to see it live, will do so no matter the post. The people who want to record it, will do so as well.

Changing things just for the sake of change is pretty immature in my opinion.

Who said anything about it being a bad betting race? I said I didn't like it from a handicapping standpoint, period. Maybe you should learn to read before making stupid comments about 2/5 shots. It's two totally different things we are talking about. Of course there is going to be great value in a 20 horse field.

You are entitled to your opinion about NYRA, regardless how ridculous it sounds. They did it for a while there with smoke and mirrors, so you will probably be eating those words very soon with the infusion of cash that will be coming.

As far as the post time goes, you are right that the regular players will watch it whatever time it's on. Now you are trying to capture as many other non regulars as possible, so what's the harm of casting a line into the primetime waters hoping you catch the big one? I don't see the harm in trying it once to see what the numbers are.

[SilverRP]

I'm for anything that will help this sport attract more fans. Primetime Derby would be fine with me, and I can't help to think that it would attract more fans.
I know the Derby is the Derby, but why don't the networks talk more and show the races leading up to the derby? Especially now that Pick 4's have become so popular. Too many people I know think the only race going on that day is the Derby. Just seems like such a waste of an opportunity to show off the sport!

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

You are entitled to your opinion about NYRA, regardless how ridculous it sounds. They did it for a while there with smoke and mirrors, so you will probably be eating those words very soon with the infusion of cash that will be coming.

I see the cash coming in bigtime given the massive influx of on-track handle. They spent a little to bring the NYCOTB on track, and while Aqueduct in the winter ain't much, a 70% increase in your attendance will do wonders to your cash flow with all that on-track take.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

I see the cash coming in bigtime given the massive influx of on-track handle. They spent a little to bring the NYCOTB on track, and while Aqueduct in the winter ain't much, a 70% increase in your attendance will do wonders to your cash flow with all that on-track take.

The value of a $1 bet in the building, on the grounds vs. $1 bet from some facility 500 miles away cannot be emphasized enough. Most people don't really understand how significant it is. It's often up to 3x as valuable (if not more). Then when you factor in additional revenue via food/bev etc., it's a big deal.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by pba1817

The Derby is about the only thing horse racing has going that is a positive.. why they would even consider changing it is beyond me. You are not going to gain any added viewers by delaying the post a couple of hours... It is a live sporting event, those who are interested will watch no matter what time post is, those who are kinda interested but not intrigued will do the same thing the rest of us do.. DVR.

Well, I think they already changed it. AS mentioned earlier post time is now 6:24 PM. I'm almost positive when I was a kid post time was more like around 5:30 or so as network coverage had to end by 6 pm I think. Was that hour lost a devastating change?

[pba1817]

If they keep making it later and later I might; a) run out of funds before post time, or b) pass out before post time... I do not like the sounds of either.