Bluegrass Cat Retired

Originally Posted by Danzig188

everyone knew leroi wasn't at his best last year, anyone who chose to bet him regardless have only themselves to blame.
also, regarding bluegrass, anyone who kept up with the sport in the weeks leading up to the travers knew todd wasn't thrilled with running bluegrass back so quickly after his haskell....anyone could read between the lines.

you're the only one to respond so far that you were skeptical beforehand when you saw the front wraps---my issue is with those who only speak up AFTER, when we should have all 'KNOWN IT ALL ALONG'. easy to say after the fact.
also, like i said above, i've seen horses run with front wraps for the first time and come back to get the trophy and check.

Zieg don't you know that the owner and trainer who have kicked up all teh cash to buy and race a horse like Leroi should always consider some guy betting 5 bucks at an OTB before racing a horse who gets 2nd place and earns a ton of cash and secures his eclipse award by showing such gameness and talent despite everyone having the full knowledge before the race that the horse has a foot that needs a bar shoe?
This is insanity. It was fully disclosed and Frankel did a masterful job getting the horse to the race and running 2nd with it. The horse was not adversely affected, and gave a very good performance.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Todko was the first to mention the wraps being on BC after the race. I know because we got into an argument about how BC would have beaten Bernardini had he not been injured. I didn't bring it up, and was glad that someone else caught the fact about the wraps which clearly indicated that he was having problems before the race.

Also, all everyone heard of before the Travers from TP was how great BC was doing and how ready he was to run a maximum effort. TP acted like he had the horse ready to run the race of his life. That is why a lot of people picked him against the great Bernardini. The only thing that TP voiced concerns about was the quick turn around.

Don't get me wrong. I think that TP is one of the best trainers out there, but he pushes his horses plain and simple. Of course, all of them do, and I know they have to push these horses. Been there, done that...just in the show world.

Also, for the record, I don't think that a completely healthy BC could have ever come anywhere near Bernardini.

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Todko was the first to mention the wraps being on BC after the race. I know because we got into an argument about how BC would have beaten Bernardini had he not been injured. I didn't bring it up, and was glad that someone else caught the fact about the wraps which clearly indicated that he was having problems before the race.

Also, all everyone heard of before the Travers from TP was how great BC was doing and how ready he was to run a maximum effort. TP acted like he had the horse ready to run the race of his life. That is why a lot of people picked him against the great Bernardini. The only thing that TP voiced concerns about was the quick turn around.

Don't get me wrong. I think that TP is one of the best trainers out there, but he pushes his horses plain and simple. Of course, all of them do, and I know they have to push these horses. Been there, done that...just in the show world.

Also, for the record, I don't think that a completely healthy BC could have ever come anywhere near Bernardini.

KY,
What you don't realize is that that stable employs a racing manager who used to train himself, even won a Belmont Stakes, who has tremendous input into the running of those horses. I'm tryiing hard to hold my tongue and not use words I shouldn't to you, because perhaps you just are clueless about this and don't realize that.
But the fact is that Todd was lukewarm about committing to the race, and the racing manager and the farm certainly made the call about running him moreso than Todd did, and that would involve right up to the end as well.
Instead of focusing this on Todd, perhaps you should be aiming a lot of it at the racing manager.
And speculating how close a horse with a fracture would have been to another horse without the fracture is really kind of impossible.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by oracle80

KY,
What you don't realize is that that stable employs a racing manager who used to train himself, even won a Belmont Stakes, who has tremendous input into the running of those horses. I'm tryiing hard to hold my tongue and not use words I shouldn't to you, because perhaps you just are clueless about this and don't realize that.
But the fact is that Todd was lukewarm about committing to the race, and the racing manager and the farm certainly made the call about running him moreso than Todd did, and that would involve right up to the end as well.
Instead of focusing this on Todd, perhaps you should be aiming a lot of it at the racing manager.
And speculating how close a horse with a fracture would have been to another horse without the fracture is really kind of impossible.

No need to hold your tongue because I think that you are interpreting my post in the wrong manner.

Again, I'm not bashing or necessarily blaming Todd or anyone else. I completely understand the pressures of this game. I'm just pointing out the facts of the situation. They were trying to get one more race out of the horse who was obviously not doing so well in the soundness department. I don't hold it against them. I would have probably done the same thing. I don't know any of them personally, and I'm sure that most or all are very professional, stand-up people. And I happen to think that Todd Pletcher is one of the best trainers in the world. However, nothing will convince me that TP and every other trainer in the world doesn't push their horses sometimes. They have to because most horses always have minor problems anyway. If they waited on all of those minor problems to resolve, h e l l, most horses would never race or race very, very little! But, I know that you know this. I'm just showing you what I know.

In another example, I'm pretty sure that it is the stud farm who wants to run FA in the Classic and not Todd Pletcher. Also, I'm sure that Pletcher didn't want to run Keyed Entry in the Derby.

You remember how I said that I didn't need to see another race from Nobiz Like Shobiz to know that he was the real deal...Well, I don't need to see another race between BC or Bernardini to know that Bernardini is, by far, the superior animal. It really doesn't matter how close BC would have been because BC's best wouldn't have been anywhere close enough to beat Bernardini anyway. That is just my opinion on the situation.

Originally Posted by oracle80

KY,
What you don't realize is that that stable employs a racing manager who used to train himself, even won a Belmont Stakes, who has tremendous input into the running of those horses. I'm tryiing hard to hold my tongue and not use words I shouldn't to you, because perhaps you just are clueless about this and don't realize that.
But the fact is that Todd was lukewarm about committing to the race, and the racing manager and the farm certainly made the call about running him moreso than Todd did, and that would involve right up to the end as well.
Instead of focusing this on Todd, perhaps you should be aiming a lot of it at the racing manager.And speculating how close a horse with a fracture would have been to another horse without the fracture is really kind of impossible.

So what you're saying is that Pletcher doesn't call the shots in his barn? He's just their puppet? OK, I believe that.
BTW, what about those returning stakes winners?