Knicks Get Melo: Did they give up too much?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He is already signed long term.

If they could pry Howard out of Orlando they would be a scary team. Have no bad contracts, strong role players, young team, top scorer, very good point guard, good defensively. With a defensive force like Howard with his new found post game they would be very tough to handle. But Howards ego is probably too big for Ok City. He would be perfect for Chicago if they can dump Boozer.

They are a low post scorer away from being a contender in the west. They could probably use another shooter as well but that isn't nearly as important as a low post threat.

I watched Chicago play the other night against the spurs when Rose went off for 40. I didn't see any holes on that team except maybe a perimeter player besides Rose that can get his shot in a halfcourt set. That team is young, athletic and deep. They are double figure odds right now to win it all. I don't see a compelling reason why they can't.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

They are a low post scorer away from being a contender in the west. They could probably use another shooter as well but that isn't nearly as important as a low post threat.

I watched Chicago play the other night against the spurs when Rose went off for 40. I didn't see any holes on that team except maybe a perimeter player besides Rose that can get his shot in a halfcourt set. That team is young, athletic and deep. They are double figure odds right now to win it all. I don't see a compelling reason why they can't.

I dont know they need more shooting. They have under utilized Cook off the bench but he is more of a playoff type asset and he can only shoot. They have a problem with LA because they dont have enough size to counter both of the Lakers big men.

[Cannon Shell]

John Hollinger
New York: D+

You can't evaluate this as you would a normal trade. This deal was made at gunpoint, and that colors the entire assessment.

Anthony became the first player in memory to issue a trade demand and then list one team that he'd accept a trade to. And then somehow, the Knicks decided to start bidding against themselves and repeatedly agreed to up the ante in the final hours.

New York could have had Anthony this summer while losing only Chandler (a restricted free agent they would have had to renounce). Their primary risk to that outcome was a "franchise tag" in the new collective bargaining agreement that would have allowed Denver to keep Anthony. But even then plenty of alternatives were available for the Knicks, as three better players -- Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Dwight Howard -- all seemed anxious to get to the Big Apple via power plays of their own, and one of the three (or another marquee star) may have wriggled free regardless of what new restrictions the next CBA imposes.

This isn't Indiana or Memphis, and this saga laid that reality bare. Even with a franchise tag rule, New York had so many advantages that it was only a matter of time before a second star showed up, especially given the salary cap space the Knicks had carved out.

To get a player like Anthony in those circumstances, it was worth paying something above just Chandler to convert a likely outcome to a certainty.

But in this case the premium New York paid was as follows, beyond Chandler:

• Gallinari
• Mozgov
• Their 2014 first-round draft pick
• Golden State's second-round picks in 2012 and 2013 (owned by the Knicks)
• $6 million in cash ($3 million each to Minnesota and Denver)
• Swallowing two dead-money years at the end of Balkman's contract
• Trading Anthony Randolph for Corey Brewer
• Trading Felton for Billups, making New York eight years older at the point guard spot with a player who makes nearly twice in salary next season. Remind me again why they needed to commit to all eight of these additional considerations for a player they were likely to get anyway?

The worst part, of course, is that this deal proves that no matter how many advantages New York gains from its magnetic appeal to potential free agents, owner James Dolan will screw them up. Leaning on the genius of Isiah Thomas -- because it worked out so well for the first time -- he fell hook, line and sinker for every bluff thrown his way by the Nuggets and Melo's people. (Yes, Melo's people participated -- Anthony needed to make sure he got a lucrative contract extension under the current salary rules before being traded.)

New York still gets its Melo-Stoudemire nucleus, but now lacks the supporting pieces to do anything important with that core. And by extending Melo now, they agree to lock him up at such an expensive price that, in concert with Stoudemire's deal, it likely precludes making a run at Chris Paul, Deron Williams or Dwight Howard in 2012.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

John Hollinger
New York: D+

You can't evaluate this as you would a normal trade. This deal was made at gunpoint, and that colors the entire assessment.

Anthony became the first player in memory to issue a trade demand and then list one team that he'd accept a trade to. And then somehow, the Knicks decided to start bidding against themselves and repeatedly agreed to up the ante in the final hours.

New York could have had Anthony this summer while losing only Chandler (a restricted free agent they would have had to renounce). Their primary risk to that outcome was a "franchise tag" in the new collective bargaining agreement that would have allowed Denver to keep Anthony. But even then plenty of alternatives were available for the Knicks, as three better players -- Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Dwight Howard -- all seemed anxious to get to the Big Apple via power plays of their own, and one of the three (or another marquee star) may have wriggled free regardless of what new restrictions the next CBA imposes.

This isn't Indiana or Memphis, and this saga laid that reality bare. Even with a franchise tag rule, New York had so many advantages that it was only a matter of time before a second star showed up, especially given the salary cap space the Knicks had carved out.

To get a player like Anthony in those circumstances, it was worth paying something above just Chandler to convert a likely outcome to a certainty.

But in this case the premium New York paid was as follows, beyond Chandler:

• Gallinari
• Mozgov
• Their 2014 first-round draft pick
• Golden State's second-round picks in 2012 and 2013 (owned by the Knicks)
• $6 million in cash ($3 million each to Minnesota and Denver)
• Swallowing two dead-money years at the end of Balkman's contract
• Trading Anthony Randolph for Corey Brewer
• Trading Felton for Billups, making New York eight years older at the point guard spot with a player who makes nearly twice in salary next season. Remind me again why they needed to commit to all eight of these additional considerations for a player they were likely to get anyway?

The worst part, of course, is that this deal proves that no matter how many advantages New York gains from its magnetic appeal to potential free agents, owner James Dolan will screw them up. Leaning on the genius of Isiah Thomas -- because it worked out so well for the first time -- he fell hook, line and sinker for every bluff thrown his way by the Nuggets and Melo's people. (Yes, Melo's people participated -- Anthony needed to make sure he got a lucrative contract extension under the current salary rules before being traded.)

New York still gets its Melo-Stoudemire nucleus, but now lacks the supporting pieces to do anything important with that core. And by extending Melo now, they agree to lock him up at such an expensive price that, in concert with Stoudemire's deal, it likely precludes making a run at Chris Paul, Deron Williams or Dwight Howard in 2012.

Rubbish complete and utter trash. Billups is a terriffic player and in season and a half his contract becomes a positive not a negative, so for that matter does balkmans. There is nothing to buy next year in the free agent market and the draft looks horrendous

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Rubbish complete and utter trash. Billups is a terriffic player and in season and a half his contract becomes a positive not a negative, so for that matter does balkmans. There is nothing to buy next year in the free agent market and the draft looks horrendous

Billups is getting torched tonight by bums. He is a fading player. Balkman's contract is just wasted space. Face it they gave up way too much. The idea that Anthony was going elsewhere was a complete fabrication.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Billups is getting torched tonight by bums. He is a fading player. Balkman's contract is just wasted space. Face it they gave up way too much. The idea that Anthony was going elsewhere was a complete fabrication.

Why would you need Chandler when Anthony is on the court. Gallo is not exact Nowitski, nor will he ever be, losing Felton on the Cheap playing well sucked but they have 7 years of selling out the Gardern and in the playoff locked up with this deal. If they get over the hump is guess work. It will all come down to finding another diamond like Fields in the draft or billups leaving and them getting a point guard..how about Baron Davis he just got banished to Siberia

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Why would you need Chandler when Anthony is on the court. Gallo is not exact Nowitski, nor will he ever be, losing Felton on the Cheap playing well sucked but they have 7 years of selling out the Gardern and in the playoff locked up with this deal. If they get over the hump is guess work. It will all come down to finding another diamond like Fields in the draft or billups leaving and them getting a point guard..how about Baron Davis he just got banished to Siberia

It isn't that they needed Chandler or Galinardi is an all star. It is that they gave up valuable pieces that worked cheap when they didn't have to. I am not a big Felton guy but he is a lot more palatable at 7 million playing 38 minutes a game than Billups at 14 million playing 32. Plus he is a tradable commodity at that salary while Billups is an anchor. Denver was desperate to get rid of Billups and while you might hear some bs about his playoff experience the fact is that the Nuggets had no leverage yet still got players, picks and dumped an unwanted salary.

The Knicks don't have issues selling seats even in tough times. The idea that another Landry will be unearthed by the Knick is very unlikely. In fact they actually took Andy Rautins before they took Fields.

So you want to add Baron Davis to this mix? Why not dust off World B Free and get Doug Moe out of retirement?