Twirling Candy Love....

Nascar1966 · #1 02-07-2011, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

For what it's worth, it's not like Twirling Candy would have much to beat on the East Coast right now if Giant Oak is the divisional leader at this point.

Good point you have brought up. Im thinking the same holds true for the West Coast. Aggie Engineer had the chance yesterday to throw his hat into the leading handicap horse for the West Coast and failed. I would laugh if any American horse makes the trip to Dubai next month for the ten million dollar race.

RockHardTen1985 · #2 02-07-2011, 02:39 PM

He is the best older horse in the country right now, even though at this point its by default because everyone else stinks. Who from the Donn would you take over him? Twirling Candy interests me because I believe he still has a ton of room to improve, and can run well on all surfaces.

Dahoss · #3 02-07-2011, 03:19 PM

I think Morning Line is better than Twirling Candy. He has actually shown the ability to withstand serious pace pressure and still run very well. Not saying Twirling Candy can't, but his race was much easier quality wise on Saturday.

I thought it was an encouraging race by I Want Revenge (but how much could he possibly have left?) and Rule ran okay, while moving prematurely. IMO Sidney's Candy is better than Twirling Candy.

RockHardTen1985 · #4 02-07-2011, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I think Morning Line is better than Twirling Candy. He has actually shown the ability to withstand serious pace pressure and still run very well. Not saying Twirling Candy can't, but his race was much easier quality wise on Saturday.

I thought it was an encouraging race by I Want Revenge (but how much could he possibly have left?) and Rule ran okay, while moving prematurely. IMO Sidney's Candy is better than Twirling Candy.

Morning Line is starting to feel like the type of horse who will run well, but not win. Lets not forget, he barley held off super hanger First Dude for his big win. The horse who gunned him down in the Mile is a total slug, and really what is Giant Oak? I defended Morning Line and said I thought he ran as well as anyone both days BC, I also think he ran well Saturday.... Something just does not seem right. Rule was never good IMO, and is not very good now. Sidneys Candy might be better then Twirling, but they both might just be really really good.

Dahoss · #5 02-07-2011, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Morning Line is starting to feel like the type of horse who will run well, but not win. Lets not forget, he barley held off super hanger First Dude for his big win. The horse who gunned him down in the Mile is a total slug, and really what is Giant Oak? I defended Morning Line and said I thought he ran as well as anyone both days BC, I also think he ran well Saturday.... Something just does not seem right. Rule was never good IMO, and is not very good now. Sidneys Candy might be better then Twirling, but they both might just be really really good.

Does what happen in races matter at all? If Moning Line is in the Strub and Twirling Candy is in the Donn, I think ML jogs and TC probably finishes off the board.

I do think it's hilarious you are picking apart Morning Line's competition while seemingly ignoring Twirling Candy was beating Tweebster in his race.

RockHardTen1985 · #6 02-07-2011, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Does what happen in races matter at all? If Moning Line is in the Strub and Twirling Candy is in the Donn, I think ML jogs and TC probably finishes off the board.

I do think it's hilarious you are picking apart Morning Line's competition while seemingly ignoring Twirling Candy was beating Tweebster in his race.

Im not really picking apart his competition because all the older horses suck, all of them. The problem I have is this.... The last 3 horses Morning Line has lost 2 are all pretty bad IMO. TC is not facing much either, but he is winning and winning easily. The Malibu was not easy, but the number was big. Morning Line is losing to bad horses and not really running fast while doing it.

Dahoss · #7 02-07-2011, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Im not really picking apart his competition because all the older horses suck, all of them. The problem I have is this.... The last 3 horses Morning Line has lost 2 are all pretty bad IMO. TC is not facing much either, but he is winning and winning easily. The Malibu was not easy, but the number was big. Morning Line is losing to bad horses and not really running fast while doing it.

I'll ask again, does what happens in races matter at all? Pace and trips matter, correct?

Twirling Candy got a 108 Beyer for the Malibu and a 101 for the Strub.

Morning Line got a 104 in the BC, a 103 in the Hal's Hope and a 102 in the Donn.

You're making it seem like Twirling Candy is Beyering in the 120's when he's not at all.

Kasept · #8 02-07-2011, 04:16 PM

I'm bewildered as to Giant Oak suffering by general comparison in the analysis going on here. I'm going to assume that is a function of our complete unfamiliarity with horses staying around until they fully mature these days. There was a time when a horse that reached his peak at 5 or 6 was appreciated simply as a late developer and gleefully welcomed to the handicap ranks.

For those who have never seen one race much past their sophomore year, a horse doesn't reach physical maturity until age 4. It's odd that a horse would run a career best figure in his first start at age 5, (105 Beyer in Giant Oak's case), and be dismissed as fodder in a discussion trying to underwhelm Morning Line's foes.

I don't get it. Everyone bemoans horses taken to the shed too quickly, and yet when one stays around, Beyering 100+ in his last three races run between 9f-10f in traditionally serious Handicap Division races, he's scoffed at as an example of how bad the elder males are currently.

knickslions2 · #9 02-07-2011, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Morning Line is starting to feel like the type of horse who will run well, but not win. Lets not forget, he barley held off super hanger First Dude for his big win. The horse who gunned him down in the Mile is a total slug, and really what is Giant Oak? I defended Morning Line and said I thought he ran as well as anyone both days BC, I also think he ran well Saturday.... Something just does not seem right. Rule was never good IMO, and is not very good now. Sidneys Candy might be better then Twirling, but they both might just be really really good.

The Donn was pretty much a great setup for Giant Oak. I thought he was a pretty good bet to win. Its hard to pick between the Candy's. They are both pretty solid horses. Twirling just seems to have more potential in the long run. I doubt we will ever see them in the same race. It's going to be a fun year.

freddymo · #10 02-07-2011, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I think Morning Line is better than Twirling Candy. He has actually shown the ability to withstand serious pace pressure and still run very well. Not saying Twirling Candy can't, but his race was much easier quality wise on Saturday.

I thought it was an encouraging race by I Want Revenge (but how much could he possibly have left?) and Rule ran okay, while moving prematurely. IMO Sidney's Candy is better than Twirling Candy.

Come on man that was a bad bad group in the Donn. Where is Morning Line's fast race?

Dahoss · #11 02-07-2011, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Come on man that was a bad bad group in the Donn. Where is Morning Line's fast race?

They are all bad Freddy. That is the point. You guys are getting excited because a horse had a dream trip and crushed Tweebster and Make Music For me.

RockHardTen1985 · #12 02-07-2011, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss

They are all bad Freddy. That is the point. You guys are getting excited because a horse had a dream trip and crushed Tweebster and Make Music For me.

My point was they are all bad, but at least TC is winning races.

freddymo · #13 02-07-2011, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss

They are all bad Freddy. That is the point. You guys are getting excited because a horse had a dream trip and crushed Tweebster and Make Music For me.

A dream trip for that horse is unpressed on a loose lead not galloping a half under restraint. This is the flaw I think many make. If that horse wanted too he could have run a bigger race by simply burying bad horses and running off.

Dahoss · #14 02-07-2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

A dream trip for that horse is unpressed on a loose lead not galloping a half under restraint. This is the flaw I think many make. If that horse wanted too he could have run a bigger race by simply burying bad horses and running off.

A dream trip for every horse is unpressed galloping on a loose lead.

RolloTomasi · #15 02-07-2011, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

A dream trip for that horse is unpressed on a loose lead not galloping a half under restraint. This is the flaw I think many make. If that horse wanted too he could have run a bigger race by simply burying bad horses and running off.

Hah! Who's flip flopping now?

This morning he was rating kindly from all the "learning" he'd done by skipping the BC Classic after having his tail shoved between his legs in the Goodwood by the West Coast version of Giant Oak...Richard's Kid.

Kasept · #16 02-07-2011, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Come on man that was a bad bad group in the Donn. Where is Morning Line's fast race?

He is consistantly fast Freddy, though not blindingly so. He stays a route of ground at a high and level cruising speed. I'm not sure why you would require a Tiznow out of an A.P. Indy mare to be excruciatingly fast, but the BC Mile and the SAR Allowance win were both negative numbers for him on Thoro-Graph coming in, and Saturday's race will fall close to a -1 as well. (That would be a top for him.)

freddymo · #17 02-07-2011, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

He is consistantly fast Freddy, though not blindingly so. He stays a route of ground at a high and level cruising speed. I'm not sure why you would require a Tiznow out of an A.P. Indy mare to be excruciatingly fast, but the BC Mile and the SAR Allowance win were both negative numbers for him on Thoro-Graph coming in, and Saturday's race will fall close to a -1 as well. (That would be a top for him.)

Love his guts and gameness how couldnt you. He is gorgeous colt and looks the part. Where is his fast race loosing to Datoka Phone at 30/1 or staying 9f's in front of a couple of cripples?