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#1
10-18-2006, 06:03 AM
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 i don't recall anyone on here commenting at or after race time about his wraps, only the next day when the news came out....ah, hindsight. always 20-20. 
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#2
10-18-2006, 06:33 PM
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And I wasn't part of this forum on that day. If I was, you would have sure heard about it from me -- before he was beaten by the supposed superhorse. Frankel runs Leriod with bar shoes to pick up a place check in the BC mile last year. Knows the horse has a foot injury but he and NYRA play the game and dupe the bettor. That horse should have been scratched or run for purse only. That was an ugly thing to do to the bettor. And you're saying the same thing couldn't have been done with Bluegrass Cat in the Travers? Wake up and smell the coffee. Or if you can't smell the coffee, then smell the money being passed under the table.
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#3
10-18-2006, 07:21 PM
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[quote=todko]I jumped right off seeing the wraps. And to see the fractions in that race leads me to believe the horse wasn't right to begin with. Despite the wraps, he didn't look good on any other criteria also.
And I wasn't part of this forum on that day. If I was, you would have sure heard about it from me -- before he was beaten by the supposed superhorse. Frankel runs Leriod with bar shoes to pick up a place check in the BC mile last year. Knows the horse has a foot injury but he and NYRA play the game and dupe the bettor. That horse should have been scratched or run for purse only. That was an ugly thing to do to the bettor. And you're saying the same thing couldn't have been done with Bluegrass Cat in the Travers? Wake up and smell the coffee. Or if you can't smell the coffee, then smell the money being passed under the table.[/QUOTE] AMEN!! Thanks Todko.  God Forbid Pope Pletcher does any of that!!
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#4
10-19-2006, 06:49 AM
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also, regarding bluegrass, anyone who kept up with the sport in the weeks leading up to the travers knew todd wasn't thrilled with running bluegrass back so quickly after his haskell....anyone could read between the lines. you're the only one to respond so far that you were skeptical beforehand when you saw the front wraps---my issue is with those who only speak up AFTER, when we should have all 'KNOWN IT ALL ALONG'. easy to say after the fact. also, like i said above, i've seen horses run with front wraps for the first time and come back to get the trophy and check.
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#5
10-19-2006, 06:58 AM
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This is insanity. It was fully disclosed and Frankel did a masterful job getting the horse to the race and running 2nd with it. The horse was not adversely affected, and gave a very good performance.
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#6
10-19-2006, 07:08 AM
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Todko was the first to mention the wraps being on BC after the race. I know because we got into an argument about how BC would have beaten Bernardini had he not been injured. I didn't bring it up, and was glad that someone else caught the fact about the wraps which clearly indicated that he was having problems before the race.
Also, all everyone heard of before the Travers from TP was how great BC was doing and how ready he was to run a maximum effort. TP acted like he had the horse ready to run the race of his life. That is why a lot of people picked him against the great Bernardini. The only thing that TP voiced concerns about was the quick turn around. Don't get me wrong. I think that TP is one of the best trainers out there, but he pushes his horses plain and simple. Of course, all of them do, and I know they have to push these horses. Been there, done that...just in the show world. Also, for the record, I don't think that a completely healthy BC could have ever come anywhere near Bernardini.
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#7
10-19-2006, 07:12 AM
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KY, What you don't realize is that that stable employs a racing manager who used to train himself, even won a Belmont Stakes, who has tremendous input into the running of those horses. I'm tryiing hard to hold my tongue and not use words I shouldn't to you, because perhaps you just are clueless about this and don't realize that. But the fact is that Todd was lukewarm about committing to the race, and the racing manager and the farm certainly made the call about running him moreso than Todd did, and that would involve right up to the end as well. Instead of focusing this on Todd, perhaps you should be aiming a lot of it at the racing manager. And speculating how close a horse with a fracture would have been to another horse without the fracture is really kind of impossible.
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#8
10-19-2006, 07:31 AM
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Again, I'm not bashing or necessarily blaming Todd or anyone else. I completely understand the pressures of this game. I'm just pointing out the facts of the situation. They were trying to get one more race out of the horse who was obviously not doing so well in the soundness department. I don't hold it against them. I would have probably done the same thing. I don't know any of them personally, and I'm sure that most or all are very professional, stand-up people. And I happen to think that Todd Pletcher is one of the best trainers in the world. However, nothing will convince me that TP and every other trainer in the world doesn't push their horses sometimes. They have to because most horses always have minor problems anyway. If they waited on all of those minor problems to resolve, h e l l, most horses would never race or race very, very little! But, I know that you know this. I'm just showing you what I know. In another example, I'm pretty sure that it is the stud farm who wants to run FA in the Classic and not Todd Pletcher. Also, I'm sure that Pletcher didn't want to run Keyed Entry in the Derby. You remember how I said that I didn't need to see another race from Nobiz Like Shobiz to know that he was the real deal...Well, I don't need to see another race between BC or Bernardini to know that Bernardini is, by far, the superior animal. It really doesn't matter how close BC would have been because BC's best wouldn't have been anywhere close enough to beat Bernardini anyway. That is just my opinion on the situation. Last edited by kentuckyrosesinmay : 10-19-2006 at 07:34 AM.
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#9
10-19-2006, 03:36 PM
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BTW, what about those returning stakes winners? 
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#10
10-19-2006, 07:32 AM
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http://www.bloodhorse.com/articleind...e.asp?id=34783
Blue Eyes, Ky, Todko read away. Note who was calling the shots.
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#11
10-19-2006, 07:39 AM
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Again oracle, I was never blaming EW or TP for trying to get one more race out of the horse. I would have done the same thing. It is all part of the game.
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#12
10-19-2006, 11:16 AM
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They knew he was bad, but I don't think they knew he was that bad. It doesn't make sense that they would risk killing him for one more race. And they damn near did kill him. And it really was Pletcher who smoozed everyone about how great BC was going to run. You can't blame it all on the farm. You wonder where the racing press is too. Nobody that interviewed Pletcher that day even mentioned the wraps. You know, if they said something like, "Hey, WTF does Bluegrass Cat have front wraps on today?" maybe people like Pletcher and Walden would be more reluctant to pull that smoke and mirrors act in the future. This is a good thread and a lot of people here made very good points. Last edited by todko : 10-19-2006 at 04:43 PM.
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#13
10-19-2006, 11:21 AM
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#14
10-19-2006, 11:31 AM
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Frank Lyons didn't know it! He said clearly on TVG in an argument with Tom Amoss when Amoss brought up the bar shoes on Leroi that, "no way would Frankel ever race Leroi with bar shoes. No way." And then he proceeded to lecture Tom Amoss on how a bar shoe works. He said something to the effect that Leroi was fine and the bar shoes were precautionary for training and that a horse couldn't get traction on turf with bar shoes (which most of us know). Amoss realized he was getting no where fast and just encouraged the viewer to look for the bar shoes and pads on race day. Leroi took a huge amount of money that day. Not everyone knew he wasn't at his best -- if they did why the money bet? I wrote those scum sucking pimps at NYRA about it and never heard back. Never heard Frank Lyons apologize on TVG either. Listen to Amoss when he's on the air. He made a great call on Balance in the KY Oaks that she wouldn't run a lick. She didn't. Amoss said Ermine looked good, he was ridiculed by Frank and the gang. Ermine ran a solid 2nd, well ahead of Balance.
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#15
10-19-2006, 03:41 PM
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Medaglia D'Oro had bad feet. Leroid had 'em. Megahertz had bad feet. No? Didn't Sightseek??? I'm starting to see a pattern here....
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#16
10-19-2006, 05:45 PM
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Back to work!
__________________
"I don't feel like that I am any better than anybody else" - Paul Newman
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#18
10-19-2006, 06:00 PM
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hell, people smoke when they know it's a killer, so why not put a couple down on leroi?!
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#19
10-19-2006, 07:34 PM
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Very true. But Frank Lyons was surely a piece of work on Leroi. He lost a lot of TVG clients money that day by insisting that Leroi was sound because "Frankel would never run in bar shoes on the turf". I lost all respect for Frank Lyons on that one (and some others like his diatribe supporting Balance for the '06 Oaks). NYRA tracks are generally better about shoe information than other circuits. But the horse should have been purse only. Or they should have had a ticker running continuously saying "Leroi injured". Because that was the case. It's always "bettor beware".
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