What happened to Upset? The horse that beat Man O' War

[smartbid09]

The other day I got to thinking what happened to Upset? The only horse that ever beat Man O' War?

He finished second as a three-year-old to Paul Jones in the 1920 Kentucky Derby. I know that. But does anybody know the fate of this horse after the race track?

Did he sire anything special?

Random I know but I'm very curious. Sorry if it's a weird post

[paisjpq]

310 For Upset 1917



Broomstick 01
Whisk Broom 2nd
(1907) Audience 01
Upset, Ch, C
Foaled January 01, 1917 *Voter 94
Pankhurst
(1910) Runaway Girl 97


Race Record
1919 1st Sanford Memorial S. ($3,925, Sar)
1920 2nd Kentucky Derby ($30,000, Cd)
1920 2nd Preakness S. ($25,000, Pim)
1920 2nd Travers S. ($9,275, Sar)
1919 2nd Grand Union Hotel S. ($7,600, Sar)
1919 2nd United States Hotel S. ($7,600, Sar)



18 Crops Lifetime Current Cur 2yo Prev 2yo
Total Foals 279 279 0 279
Named Foals 279 279 0 279
Starters (/Foals) 243 87% 0 0% 0 0% 211 76%
Winners (/Foals) 185 66% 0 0% 0 0% 114 41%
Winners (/Starters) 185 76% 0 0% 0 0% 114 54%

Total Starts % 11816 0 0 2,063
Total Wins (/Starts) 1,205 10% 0 0% 0 0% 240 12%

Total Earnings $1,216,598 $0 $0 $268,501
Avg Earnings/Starter $5,007 $0 $0 $1,273
Avg Earnings/Start $103 $0 $0 $130
Median Earnings $1,950 $0 $0

Blacktype Wnrs (/Foals) 11 4% 0 0% 0 0% 6 2%
Blacktype Wnrs (/Strs) 11 5% 0 0% 0 0% 6 3%
Blacktype Horses (/Foals) 31 11% 0 0% 0 0% 21 8%
Blacktype Horses (/Strs) 31 13% 0 0% 0 0% 21 10%

Sup Runners (/Foals) 4 1% 0 0% 0 0% 4 1%
Sup Runners (/Starters) 4 2% 0 0% 0 0% 4 2%

Avg # years Raced 3.87 0.00 0.00 1.00
Avg Starts/Year 12.57 0.00 0.00 9.78
All Foals Colts Fillies
Sire Production Index 0.80( 236) 0.84( 121) 0.77( 115)
Average Mare's Index 0.23
Dam's Expectancy Index 0.61
Adjusted SPI 1.32

End of Search

[Indian Charlie]

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.p...l%20Horses&cf=

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Here's the chart of the race Upset beat Man O' War



Man O' War broke 5th of 7 in the race - I've read accounts on the Internet before claiming he was turned around at the start - and off 20 lengths slow. Obviously bogus.

He was widely cited as the superior horse to Upset in the press recap - the reasons cited being #1.) Upset had a better start #2.) Upset saved ground while Man O' War had to take up while trying to squeeze through on the rail #3.) Man O' War carried 130lbs while Upset carried just 115lbs

Here is a cut...



The starter was called out that day for doing a miserable job. In an earlier race on the card - his start was so bad that the chart claimed "the last four at the start had no chance"




Here is Upset's form as a 4yo - he was a good 2nd beaten only 2.5 lengths to Man O' War in the Travers the following year. Also 2nd by 1.5 lengths to Man O' War in the Preakness.

[joeydb]

Cool stuff. Thanks for posting.

Any idea what the "O H C P S" columns to the far right are, and how they would map to our current PP formats that are available? It wasn't obvious to me at first glance.

Looks like O is odds?

[OldDog]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Here's the chart of the race Upset beat Man O' War

Not something you're likely to read today:

...then came to the outside in the final eighth and, responding gamely to punishment, was gaining in the closing strides.

It's also noteworthy that Man O' War and Golden Broome gave 15 pounds to Upset.

Great stuff - thanks for posting it.

[Merlinsky]

I read that the starter was a replacement for the normal one who was sick, and that this guy once kept a field of horses for an hour before the race went off. They were just behind the barrier constantly messing up the line, I guess.

I have someone I'll ask about some of the things like the start and Upset to find out what's apocryphal. I don't know about the 20 lengths, but supposedly they knew MOW could wind himself up if they banged into him so they tried to burn his energy at the beginning. His neighbors at the barrier were misbehaving on purpose.

[Dunbar]

As a kid I remember thinking what a terrific coincidence it was that the only horse to beat Man O' War was named Upset. Then I heard that the word "upset" didn't have that particular meaning until AFTER Man O' War's defeat at the hands of Upset. (which was perhaps a Beamonesque effort on the part of Upset).

I wasn't particularly upset about having my "coincidence" ruined. It also seemed pretty cool that horseracing had changed the English language. Then I read that it WAS a coincidence after all. "upset" was already used before the 1919 race to mean a surprise victory by an underdog.

I just tried to verify this in my 1971 OED, but I couldn't find that definition even listed, which is odd in itself. But I did find a couple of online references to a word researcher named George Thompson who in 2002 found some newspaper uses of upset (as in surprise victory) dating back to the late 19th C.

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=2435
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upset

So now I'm back to thinking it was an amazing coincidence.


--Dunbar

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Cool stuff. Thanks for posting.

Any idea what the "O H C P S" columns to the far right are, and how they would map to our current PP formats that are available? It wasn't obvious to me at first glance.

Looks like O is odds?

O is what the odds opened at - H might stand for something like "hold" or "half way" maybe - C is what the odds closed at. P is likey place and S is likely show.

I think any notion that Man O' War was stiffed in this race would seem to be dispelled by the odds. Golden Broom opened at 9/5 and drifted up to 5/2 at close.

Golden Broom also set the pace and most benefited from Man O' War's poor start - yet money never came in on that horse.

[GenuineRisk]

I started googling to see if Upset appears in any notable horse's bloodlines, and lo and behold, he is on Dr Fager's sire line. And Man O' War is on Dr Fagers dam line.

Here's a link to some of Upset's descendants:
http://www.idshs.com.au/perl/search....x=upset&gens=5

[jms62]

DrugS really does some great work. good job !

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Just a lot of curiosity and aspergers on my part.

When I was studying Whirlway's charts I noticed an interesting column about where his place was among the greats.

They did a top 20 poll in 1934 where Man O' War won by a single point - it supposedly set off a great controversy.




The author goes on to rate Discovery over Seabiscuit, Challedon, and War Admirel as the best horses to race between '34-'41