The envelope, please

[munster705]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

There is someone else on this board (who has actually been absent for a while) who seems to have a personal grudge with Ramon. Any time Ramon gives a poor ride, he is here huffing and puffing about him being over rated. Then he goes on a rampage about the lack of wins that Ramon has on big days.

I think the guy is very talented. Obviously he gets good mounts in NY and that helps. But what about some of the bad mounts that he seems to get in many of the big races and then gets ragged on for not winning with them?

I think he is good too, but I feel that he should have better finishes on the biggest days to be truely great. He kills NY racing because the fields are weak and he gets a ton a good mounts, kind of like Russell Baze on the west coast. I just think he needs to win a Derby or on Breeder's Cup days more often to be one of the greats

[Dahoss]

I actually think Dominguez is underrated. He schools a pretty good colony in NY on a daily basis.

Borel is the most overrated jockey I have seen in a while.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by munster705

I think he is good too, but I feel that he should have better finishes on the biggest days to be truely great. He kills NY racing because the fields are weak and he gets a ton a good mounts, kind of like Russell Baze on the west coast. I just think he needs to win a Derby or on Breeder's Cup days more often to be one of the greats

What about Belmont and Saratoga?

I just think it's silly to say that a guy who has won numerous and consecutive riding titles on arguably the most competitve circuit in the country needs to win a Derby (or another big race) to justify him being a great rider. So all the other races he's won during the year mean nothing because he didn't win one of approximately fifteen other races that he was entered in? Seems a bit ridiculous.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

What about Belmont and Saratoga?

I just think it's silly to say that a guy who has won numerous and consecutive riding titles on arguably the most competitve circuit in the country needs to win a Derby (or another big race) to justify him being a great rider. So all the other races he's won during the year mean nothing because he didn't win one of approximately fifteen other races that he was entered in? Seems a bit ridiculous.

You mean the Russell Baze comparison wasn't a good example?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You mean the Russell Baze comparison wasn't a good example?

He's obviously done much more on big stages than Baze, but I can see where the comparison comes from with him staying in NY all winter getting just about every live mount rather than going to Gulfstream to ride against real competition.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

He's obviously done much more on big stages than Baze, but I can see where the comparison comes from with him staying in NY all winter getting just about every live mount rather than going to Gulfstream to ride against real competition.

Yeah, but doesn't he beat the competition he'd see at Gulfstream the rest of the year? When Dominguez was riding at Delaware I could see the comparison, but the guy has owned NY for a couple of seasons now.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Yeah, but doesn't he beat the competition he'd see at Gulfstream the rest of the year? When Dominguez was riding at Delaware I could see the comparison, but the guy has owned NY for a couple of seasons now.

Exactly. The BC was disappointing for Dominguez this year, but he had as many wins as Julien Leparoux, who had more and much higher quality mounts. The fact that he hasn't been able to get horses like Homeboykris and Desert Party to the winner's circle in the Derby doesn't make me think any less of him. He got two ITM finishes out of First Dude this year and that was a pretty strong feat.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Exactly. The BC was disappointing for Dominguez this year, but he had as many wins as Julien Leparoux, who had more and much higher quality mounts. The fact that he hasn't been able to get horses like Homeboykris and Desert Party to the winner's circle in the Derby doesn't make me think any less of him. He got two ITM finishes out of First Dude this year and that was a pretty strong feat.

He was just unlucky this year as he ran into both Uncle Mo and Goldikova while running second in both.

What probably goes unnoticed is that he got the connections of Joyful Victory (12-1) and Forest Legend (73-1) checks by running 4th and 5th respectively.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

He's obviously done much more on big stages than Baze, but I can see where the comparison comes from with him staying in NY all winter getting just about every live mount rather than going to Gulfstream to ride against real competition.

So if Kobe Bryant scores 40 against Memphis he's another Tony Campbell....regardless of what he does the rest of the season or during his career?

It's a horrible analogy for the reasons the last two posters pointed out.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

So if Kobe Bryant scores 40 against Memphis he's another Tony Campbell....regardless of what he does the rest of the season or during his career?

It's a horrible analogy for the reasons the last two posters pointed out.

That's a pretty bad analogy as well. One game vs. Memphis = 3+ months of the year? It'd be more like Kobe deciding to play in the D-League for over a quarter of the season.

He's obviously a very good rider who's had tremendous success in NY, but he has a history of taking the relatively easy career path, and it hurts his reputation. And until he rides against top riders all 12 months, that perception will still persist among some.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

That's a pretty bad analogy as well. One game vs. Memphis = 3+ months of the year? It'd be more like Kobe deciding to play in the D-League for over a quarter of the season.

He's obviously a very good rider who's had tremendous success in NY, but he has a history of taking the relatively easy career path, and it hurts his reputation. And until he rides against top riders all 12 months, that perception will still persist among some.

Actually it's a very good analogy in this instance. Ignoring his success against the best riders the rest of the year, in this case, is fitting the circumstance to suit an agenda.

You act like I suggested Memphis was his only game....I could have listed a quarter of the season against non-competition, but assumed that was implicit. The analogy is exactly right.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

That's a pretty bad analogy as well. One game vs. Memphis = 3+ months of the year? It'd be more like Kobe deciding to play in the D-League for over a quarter of the season.

He's obviously a very good rider who's had tremendous success in NY, but he has a history of taking the relatively easy career path, and it hurts his reputation. And until he rides against top riders all 12 months, that perception will still persist among some.

In all fairness, and I'm not Dominguez's attorney, he stayed in Delaware as long as he did because of his family. He got to a point where he was ready to move them to NY and that's why he's there year round. He can also make a terrific amount of money riding the inner track in the winter.

Russell Baze riding in NoCal for his entire career and never even really giving SoCal a go is much more egregious than Dominguez riding at Delaware and the winter in NY for a few years before riding in NY full-time. I get as much out of the Dominguez-Baze comparison as most people do out of the Zenyatta-Peppers Pride version.