A 2nd BC Day?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think they should just eliminate it all-together and then perhaps races during the year could go back to having some meaning. But, then again, racing really is only about one race, a career record is obviously meaningless.

If they eliminated it do you really think we'd ever see Lava Man and Bernardini face off, or Henny Hughes and Bordonaro, or Aragorn and Gorella, or countless other matchups of east coast and west coast horses? Virtually no one would take the risk of shipping a top horse to the other coast without the reward of the Breeders' Cup. As many faults as the emphasis on the BC has, I think we are better off with it than without it.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

If they eliminated it do you really think we'd ever see Lava Man and Bernardini face off, or Henny Hughes and Bordonaro, or Aragorn and Gorella, or countless other matchups of east coast and west coast horses? Virtually no one would take the risk of shipping a top horse to the other coast without the reward of the Breeders' Cup. As many faults as the emphasis on the BC has, I think we are better off with it than without it.

Nonsense, Sniper. Could I ask how old you are? I only ask that because in the Days before the BC people shipped all year long to face each other in grade one's to settle championships. Lemme tell ya, racng was full of matchups back then, the kind that met 2-3 -4 times a year rather than once. We sure wouldn't have had Alydar-Affirmed if the BC had been in place back then.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Nonsense, Sniper. Could I ask how old you are? I only ask that because in the Days before the BC people shipped all year long to face each other in grade one's to settle championships. Lemme tell ya, racng was full of matchups back then, the kind that met 2-3 -4 times a year rather than once. We sure wouldn't have had Alydar-Affirmed if the BC had been in place back then.

Alot less stakes races back then. You could have ran at Charlestown this weekend for 500k, and MOST ARLINGTON horses would beat those rats...There is too much money available to have these matchups now days. I don't fault connections one bit for shopping for races, because the cost to take care of ONE of these animals is astronomical. This sport needs an Alydar-Affirmed because it is dwindling

Originally Posted by Scav

Alot less stakes races back then. You could have ran at Charlestown this weekend for 500k, and MOST ARLINGTON horses would beat those rats...There is too much money available to have these matchups now days. I don't fault connections one bit for shopping for races, because the cost to take care of ONE of these animals is astronomical. This sport needs an Alydar-Affirmed because it is dwindling

Scav I don't understand what you are saying at all in regards to Charles Town. Both Laurel and Charles Town hosted lucrative races for MARYLAND AND WEST VIRGINIA BREDS this past weekend. As did calder for FLORIDA BREDS. Belmont hosts the NY bred showcase next weekend.
I assure you that anyone at Arlington who had a WV bred, Md bred, or Fla bred was there with their horse.
These races are restricted to state bred company and illustrating the 500 grand WV bred race as a race that any horse could have run in is false, those days don't draw away from the sport.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Scav I don't understand what you are saying at all in regards to Charles Town. Both Laurel and Charles Town hosted lucrative races for MARYLAND AND WEST VIRGINIA BREDS this past weekend. As did calder for FLORIDA BREDS. Belmont hosts the NY bred showcase next weekend.
I assure you that anyone at Arlington who had a WV bred, Md bred, or Fla bred was there with their horse.
These races are restricted to state bred company and illustrating the 500 grand WV bred race as a race that any horse could have run in is false, those days don't draw away from the sport.

While you could have drawn the conclusion that is what I meant, it isnt what I meant. I KNOW that they were conditioned to state bred, but in no way should a WV bred that is a claiming 15k rat should be running for 500k. the point I was trying to make and should have just said it this.

There are too many tracks out there with too much money, if we want this sport to get to where it once was, we need to lower the amount of stakes races around the country. There are too many tracks, that are filtering their money to one specific day, and letting the rest of their days go to crap. EVERY TRACK is guilty of it.

Someone mentioned the idea of a racing league, which would be a great idea, absolutely great idea, but you have too many owners that think they have huge balls and it would never work. Horse Racing COULD get NFL type hoopla and publicity, but it is marketed all wrong and set up all wrong.

There are two things that I wish I could take over and turn into goldmines, NCAA Football and Horse racing. If I could set up a 16 team playoff for the NCAA, it would be bigger then the March Madness, there is just as much passion in college football as in College basketball, it is just set up wrong (look at Florida and Auburn for example)...and if I could create a horse racing league, I could turn it into the NFL as far as attention.

Look at what the NFL has done, MILLIONS of people sit in front of the TV for 7 hours a day on Sundays. With what people's attention span are now days, that is unheard of

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Scav

While you could have drawn the conclusion that is what I meant, it isnt what I meant. I KNOW that they were conditioned to state bred, but in no way should a WV bred that is a claiming 15k rat should be running for 500k. the point I was trying to make and should have just said it this.

There are too many tracks out there with too much money, if we want this sport to get to where it once was, we need to lower the amount of stakes races around the country. There are too many tracks, that are filtering their money to one specific day, and letting the rest of their days go to crap. EVERY TRACK is guilty of it.

Someone mentioned the idea of a racing league, which would be a great idea, absolutely great idea, but you have too many owners that think they have huge balls and it would never work. Horse Racing COULD get NFL type hoopla and publicity, but it is marketed all wrong and set up all wrong.

There are two things that I wish I could take over and turn into goldmines, NCAA Football and Horse racing. If I could set up a 16 team playoff for the NCAA, it would be bigger then the March Madness, there is just as much passion in college football as in College basketball, it is just set up wrong (look at Florida and Auburn for example)...and if I could create a horse racing league, I could turn it into the NFL as far as attention.

Look at what the NFL has done, MILLIONS of people sit in front of the TV for 7 hours a day on Sundays. With what people's attention span are now days, that is unheard of

since states have managed to get slots, they have more money to throw at what they want to support--state breds... so i have no problem with them paying money to them, rat or not. however, i think grading of races needs to be far more difficult. too many graded stakes out there. only the very best, most exclusive and meaningful races should be gr 1's.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

since states have managed to get slots, they have more money to throw at what they want to support--state breds... so i have no problem with them paying money to them, rat or not. however, i think grading of races needs to be far more difficult. too many graded stakes out there. only the very best, most exclusive and meaningful races should be gr 1's.

Scav there is a committee that downgrades and upgrades which stakes are graded each year.
What you propose would suck the industry down the tubes.
ELiminating stakes races means eliminating purse money and residual value. People can't make money racing for the most part, they make it on the back end with stallions and broodmares.
What you propose would kill the sport in one year. haveing fewer stakes races generally would lead to only those who are already rich and powerful winning the stakes races, with even fewer scraps to the "have nots". Its not gonna hurt Pletcher and his owners, or the Sheikhs, but it sure as hell would hurt the lower echelon folks.
No stakes race is easy, trust me. Try managing a horse and looking for an "easy spot" and you will find there is no such thing.
Proposiing a racing world where only the highest end breeders, owners, and trainers have even MORE of an advantage would cause: Trainers looking at the want ads for other lines of work, breeders other than the superwealthy to hang out for sale signs at record rates, and owners who arent zillionaires divesting their horses and taking up golf.

Originally Posted by Scav

While you could have drawn the conclusion that is what I meant, it isnt what I meant. I KNOW that they were conditioned to state bred, but in no way should a WV bred that is a claiming 15k rat should be running for 500k. the point I was trying to make and should have just said it this.

There are too many tracks out there with too much money, if we want this sport to get to where it once was, we need to lower the amount of stakes races around the country. There are too many tracks, that are filtering their money to one specific day, and letting the rest of their days go to crap. EVERY TRACK is guilty of it.

Someone mentioned the idea of a racing league, which would be a great idea, absolutely great idea, but you have too many owners that think they have huge balls and it would never work. Horse Racing COULD get NFL type hoopla and publicity, but it is marketed all wrong and set up all wrong.

There are two things that I wish I could take over and turn into goldmines, NCAA Football and Horse racing. If I could set up a 16 team playoff for the NCAA, it would be bigger then the March Madness, there is just as much passion in college football as in College basketball, it is just set up wrong (look at Florida and Auburn for example)...and if I could create a horse racing league, I could turn it into the NFL as far as attention.

Look at what the NFL has done, MILLIONS of people sit in front of the TV for 7 hours a day on Sundays. With what people's attention span are now days, that is unheard of

Scav,
I think its great that those days exist and have to respectfully disagree. Who is anyone to say that lower level trainers and owners and breeders who concentrate on state breds shouldn't have their day in the sun to try and make a score?
The purpose of these days is to promote breeding programs in states. When you toss out a bundle of cash to be given away on a given day, it gives people hope and ambition.
Starting a breeding farm requires tremendous capital and work and risk. If it weren't for these big pursed state bred showcase days, well who would bother? The Kentucky farms have a lotta cash behind them and will always putperform their fledgling rivals in the long run.
How do we get new blood in the sport if state bred breeding programs aren't instituted?
Maybe you find it terrible that WV breds can run for a lotta money one night, but all those trainers, owners and breeders who work their asses off all year long don't do it because they make a lot of money or have Derby or Breeders Cup dreams. These are hardworking folks who work under less than stellar conditions and who dream of making ends meet and pursuing what they love, not of getting rich and getting roses placed on their horses.
What exactly is the matter with the "have nots" getting a day to race for big money and a state trying to promote an industry within their confines that brings millions of dollars in state revenue and commerce and provides jobs for thousands of people? How does that adversely affect racing?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Scav,
I think its great that those days exist and have to respectfully disagree. Who is anyone to say that lower level trainers and owners and breeders who concentrate on state breds shouldn't have their day in the sun to try and make a score?
The purpose of these days is to promote breeding programs in states. When you toss out a bundle of cash to be given away on a given day, it gives people hope and ambition.
Starting a breeding farm requires tremendous capital and work and risk. If it weren't for these big pursed state bred showcase days, well who would bother? The Kentucky farms have a lotta cash behind them and will always putperform their fledgling rivals in the long run.
How do we get new blood in the sport if state bred breeding programs aren't instituted?
Maybe you find it terrible that WV breds can run for a lotta money one night, but all those trainers, owners and breeders who work their asses off all year long don't do it because they make a lot of money or have Derby or Breeders Cup dreams. These are hardworking folks who work under less than stellar conditions and who dream of making ends meet and pursuing what they love, not of getting rich and getting roses placed on their horses.
What exactly is the matter with the "have nots" getting a day to race for big money and a state trying to promote an industry within their confines that brings millions of dollars in state revenue and commerce and provides jobs for thousands of people? How does that adversely affect racing?

While WV is an example, I disagree how they run it. Those horses wouldn't win races at any other circuit, they would struggle to be claiming 20k in Illinois. Throw 500k at them, I could agree with 75k or 100k like Illinois does, but 500k, come on, that 400k could be used for backstretch improvement, or for ALL purses

I am telling you, if you put a league together, where stakes races are planned out throughout the year(3 stakes races this weekend for 3 year old turf, even you said it makes ZERO sense and hurts the fields), the marketing dollars would be there, and that ultimately is what makes a sport go now days.

This year is going to be really interesting to see what the BC gets as far as ratings. But this sport could be marketed like the NFL, where BC Day is like the Super Bowl and the last two months were the 'playoffs' and earlier in the year is the regular season. The problem is that you have tracks that are ultimately in competition against each other, instead of with each other. Imagine if you could devise a purse structure where it increased throughout the year in importance, and make it where you have to run in these races to qualify later on (like the Kentucky Derby with earnings). You get hurt oh well, there is next year, just like the NFL.

With the correct structure and tuned marketing, horse racing would be the 2nd watched sport in the world, it has a worldwide presence, females take interest to it as a sport, and guys love to gamble.....The problem is that their is just too much money up for grabs given the many industries that feed off of racing and you don't have a 'strong' ruler of the industry (NFL Commish for example)

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Nonsense, Sniper. Could I ask how old you are? I only ask that because in the Days before the BC people shipped all year long to face each other in grade one's to settle championships. Lemme tell ya, racng was full of matchups back then, the kind that met 2-3 -4 times a year rather than once. We sure wouldn't have had Alydar-Affirmed if the BC had been in place back then.

Come on now, we both know the game has changed a lot. If you suddenly eliminated the BC the game would not go back to how it was in the 1970's.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Come on now, we both know the game has changed a lot. If you suddenly eliminated the BC the game would not go back to how it was in the 1970's.

You'd be surprised.