Who was closer to the Triple Crown...Smarty or Alex?

[repent]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

So this babble was substance? Would the real horses Bailey had to ride be the ones that couldn't get within a sniff of Smarty? Your "substance" is that they met once on a dry track and beat him? Yeah he did, but I highly doubt you will find many sane people that will tell you Smarty wasn't best that day. His Belmont is the most courageous run I have ever seen, and like I said most sane people will tell you the same. Like I said, Birdstone was a pretty good horse, to win a Belmont and travers is a very good accomplishment. But he was not better than Smarty. And I would love for you to find people who agree with your stance.

I dont give 2 sh*ts if anyone agrees with me.

and that Belmont run was the most courageous you have seen?

lmao,
did you not see PEnsign's BC Distaff win?
how about any of Giants Causeway's wins during that incredible win streak?
or either one of Tiznow's BCC wins?
or Storm Flag Flying's BCJF win?

you see, all these horses WON.

lucky jones LOST.

if you want to talk about amazing performances in a losing effort,
check out Rock of Gibraltar's BCMile run.
or Falbrav's BCTurf loss.
or Swain's Dubai World Cup loss to Silver Charm.

all much more impressive performances and displays of "courage".



Repent

[largo1]

Afleet Alex was closer to winning the triple crown. If Jeremy Rose hadn't moved him to the *dead* Churchill rail, he probably would have won the Derby. He was much the best that day. I think he could have held off Giacomo closing on the outside. I like Giacomo, but I do think that on that day, Afleet Alex was the much better horse,,,just had ****ty racing luck. Which we all know is a huge part of the game.

Now, that being said, I think Smarty was a better horse. He was more deserving of the Triple Crown, but, the way the race set up, there was just NO WAY he beats Birdstone that day. Like many, I think it was because of the way he was double-teamed,,,,but I really can't take anything away from Birdstone on that day. And double-teaming is legal, just like running rabbits. I STILL cry big ole crocodile tears when I watch that Belmont replay. Actually, I have a real hard time watching it. Broke my heart!!

Suzanne

[repent]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You're right, I misspoke. It wasn't the most, but it was one of. Still doesn't give any creedence to your original nonsense. You can't back that up, and I'm done with this. No point wasting my time with a sore loser.

cant back what up?
that The Stone was better?
you are just p*sed b/c I can back that up.

almost every historically significant horse has won at Belmont Racetrack.
when did smarty jones do that?
the Stone did it, and more than once.

The Stone beat him when they met on a dry track.
the Stone went on to win the Travers, which is our country's best measuring stick of top class 3YOs.
look at the past winners.
the Travers winners are as impressive of a group as any 3YO race run in this country.
you can say that lucky jones was better.
hell, you can even believe it if you want to.
but the record shows us that The Stone beat him the last time they met and the one time they met on a dry track.
and from a historical perspective, its not even close.
The Stone rules over lucky jones.



Repent

[repent]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'll be nice, since you are relatively new to this sport. I mean you would have to be making some of those remarks. I defy you to find me one credible person that will tell you that Birdstone wasn't the recipient of a dream trip in the Belmont. I also defy you to find me one person that will tell you that Smarty wasn't better that day or any. I know you don't care who says what, but I have never heard one person say Birdstone was better than Smarty. If Birdstone didn't like the wet track like you are implying, it certainly didn't bother him in the Travers. Your claim that because Smarty never won at Belmont is something to hold against him is borderline retarded. He ran there once, and he hardly disgraced himself. I guess winning the Derby and Preakness is no big accomplishment. I find it funny that you can make historical comments while knowing very little of what you are talking about. From a historical perspective NO ONE will say birdstone was better, NO ONE. No one on here, or anywhere.

you are a freaking moron.

the Travers track was listed as "fast".
the rain came after the race that day.

but Im not even sayng The Stone hated an off track.
what I am saying is that the one time they met on a dry track, The Stone beat him.
new to the sport?
maybe, depends on perspective.
but the verification of your expertise relies on someone else, anyone else, agreeing with your opinion.
what the hell kind of sense does that make.
I oay the b*tch next door to say that Birdstone was a better horse.
that does not make it any more true or false.

and you want me to find a "credible" person to say that Birdstone was not the recipient of a "dream trip"?
what makes someone credible and what encompasses a dream trip?
does someone on this board with x amount of posts make them credible?
do they need to be a full time writer with the Daily Racing Form?
or can they be a degenerate at Manor Downs that i see when I stop by to pick up a form?


your position is full of holes and all the smarty party agreeing with you will not make it any stronger.

Birdstone got the right pace scenario he needed to be most effective on Belmont Stakes day.
so what?
it does not make his win any less valid than if smarty jones had won the race while getting an easy lead.

stop worrying about my experience within the game or my historical perspective.
they are not relevant to the argument at hand.

like I said, nothing has changed but the surrounding bullsh*t that has grown.
Ed was right on point with that one.



Repent

[repent]

good gosh,
this is like conversing with Richi.

when this dude cant strengthen his argument any further,
he starts attaking the opposition's percieved experience or status within the game of horse racing.

what a bunch of crap.

Im a mid 20s businessman with a full time addiction to horse racing.
I love it. It consumes almost all my free time.
Im not an expert and would never pretend to be.
but I do my homework. I dont present false data and I dont assume my conclusions to be facts.

hey btw, DaHoss sucked as a racehorse.



Repent

[repent]

ok DaHoss,
im out of here.
please respond with some more posts concerning my experience within the game in order to strengthen your argument for smarty jones.

cant wait to read it when I get back.
later on loser.


Repent

Originally Posted by repent

you are a freaking moron.

the Travers track was listed as "fast".
the rain came after the race that day.

but Im not even sayng The Stone hated an off track.
what I am saying is that the one time they met on a dry track, The Stone beat him.
new to the sport?
maybe, depends on perspective.
but the verification of your expertise relies on someone else, anyone else, agreeing with your opinion.
what the hell kind of sense does that make.
I oay the b*tch next door to say that Birdstone was a better horse.
that does not make it any more true or false.

and you want me to find a "credible" person to say that Birdstone was not the recipient of a "dream trip"?
what makes someone credible and what encompasses a dream trip?
does someone on this board with x amount of posts make them credible?
do they need to be a full time writer with the Daily Racing Form?
or can they be a degenerate at Manor Downs that i see when I stop by to pick up a form?


your position is full of holes and all the smarty party agreeing with you will not make it any stronger.

Birdstone got the right pace scenario he needed to be most effective on Belmont Stakes day.
so what?
it does not make his win any less valid than if smarty jones had won the race while getting an easy lead.

stop worrying about my experience within the game or my historical perspective.
they are not relevant to the argument at hand.

like I said, nothing has changed but the surrounding bullsh*t that has grown.
Ed was right on point with that one.



Repent

I am not trying to refute what you said or argue with you. I have only one point to make. I was at the Travers in 2004. It started raining about twenty minutes before the Travers; my husband and I were caught in the deluge as we walked to the track. We needed a row boat to navigate. I think the race was even run several minutes early, so we could not bet! We had just gotten to the track as it was being run. I had bet Birdstone in the Belmont, so I was going to put him in some big exactas. Anyway, my only point is that track seemed very off, so Birdstone won on a pea soup track that day.

[Buffymommy]

OK, for starters: DA HOSS WAS AN AWESOME RACE HORSE REPENT. GO WATCH HIS 2ND BC WIN. You shouldn't say things like that.

As for the topic of this thread: I would have to give the nod to Alex. I like both horses. I really do. I liked Smarty's story and the horse himself. You all blame RH10 and Eddington for the loss of his triple crown. One thing I bring up in defense of Alex: Scrappy T.

It really is silly to debate this topic. It really comes down to people's opinions on who impressed them more as a racer. Both horses were awesome and they had a great triple crown run. Lets leave it at that and not bash each other.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Buffymommy

OK, for starters: DA HOSS WAS AN AWESOME RACE HORSE REPENT. GO WATCH HIS 2ND BC WIN. You shouldn't say things like that.

As for the topic of this thread: I would have to give the nod to Alex. I like both horses. I really do. I liked Smarty's story and the horse himself. You all blame RH10 and Eddington for the loss of his triple crown. One thing I bring up in defense of Alex: Scrappy T.

It really is silly to debate this topic. It really comes down to people's opinions on who impressed them more as a racer. Both horses were awesome and they had a great triple crown run. Lets leave it at that and not bash each other.

Not sure what Scrappy T has to do with AA losing the Triple Crown, he didn't run in the Derby and despite the bad trip AA beat him in the Preakness....


I would think RHT and Eddington are better horses than Scrappy T...

In my opinion Smarty was a better horse, but there's no arguing this with Repent. Why can't he just take this hatred to a horse that deserves it like Bernardini...

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

Not sure what Scrappy T has to do with AA losing the Triple Crown, he didn't run in the Derby and despite the bad trip AA beat him in the Preakness....


I would think RHT and Eddington are better horses than Scrappy T...

In my opinion Smarty was a better horse, but there's no arguing this with Repent. Why can't he just take this hatred to a horse that deserves it like Bernardini...

Why does Bernardini deserve hatred?

[Buffymommy]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

Not sure what Scrappy T has to do with AA losing the Triple Crown, he didn't run in the Derby and despite the bad trip AA beat him in the Preakness....


I would think RHT and Eddington are better horses than Scrappy T...

In my opinion Smarty was a better horse, but there's no arguing this with Repent. Why can't he just take this hatred to a horse that deserves it like Bernardini...

I meant that Scrappy T gave AA a hard time winning in the Preakness in almost falling on his face, yet AA still found a way to win. Just meant that AA faced trouble with other horses too. He just missed in the derby.

It really is a strong argument for both horses. They were both really nice horses who had a heck of a run at the triple crown.

P.S. RHT would have crushed both of them in their 4 yr old campaigns. (BUT THAT IS JUST MY OPINION).

And why should we hate on Bernardini? Shouldn't hate the horse. Horse is a good horse. Everyone is just tired of people calling him "GREAT". He hasn't proved that yet. To me anyway.

So don't hate any horse, they are only doing what they are asked to do. Hate the playas.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Bold Reasoning

I am not trying to refute what you said or argue with you. I have only one point to make. I was at the Travers in 2004. It started raining about twenty minutes before the Travers; my husband and I were caught in the deluge as we walked to the track. We needed a row boat to navigate. I think the race was even run several minutes early, so we could not bet! We had just gotten to the track as it was being run. I had bet Birdstone in the Belmont, so I was going to put him in some big exactas. Anyway, my only point is that track seemed very off, so Birdstone won on a pea soup track that day.

I think your memory is a little bit off. I was at the track all day that day. Yes, there was a storm but it didnt start until AFTER the race. There was no soupy track. Now, it was pretty much a monsoon after it started but the race began as the dark clouds rolled ominously in and the thunder was crackling.

Yes, it began a few minutes before schedule and they loaded QUICKLY but that was to ensure that they did run on a dry track. Im sure you can find the find replay somewhere.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I think your memory is a little bit off. I was at the track all day that day. Yes, there was a storm but it didnt start until AFTER the race. There was no soupy track. Now, it was pretty much a monsoon after it started but the race began as the dark clouds rolled ominously in and the thunder was crackling.

Yes, it began a few minutes before schedule and they loaded QUICKLY but that was to ensure that they did run on a dry track. Im sure you can find the find replay somewhere.

Track was dry and fast for that race. Pea Soup? Do you have alzheimer's?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by repent

you are a freaking moron.

the Travers track was listed as "fast".
the rain came after the race that day.

but Im not even sayng The Stone hated an off track.
what I am saying is that the one time they met on a dry track, The Stone beat him.
new to the sport?
maybe, depends on perspective.
but the verification of your expertise relies on someone else, anyone else, agreeing with your opinion.
what the hell kind of sense does that make.
I oay the b*tch next door to say that Birdstone was a better horse.
that does not make it any more true or false.

and you want me to find a "credible" person to say that Birdstone was not the recipient of a "dream trip"?
what makes someone credible and what encompasses a dream trip?
does someone on this board with x amount of posts make them credible?
do they need to be a full time writer with the Daily Racing Form?
or can they be a degenerate at Manor Downs that i see when I stop by to pick up a form?


your position is full of holes and all the smarty party agreeing with you will not make it any stronger.

Birdstone got the right pace scenario he needed to be most effective on Belmont Stakes day.
so what?
it does not make his win any less valid than if smarty jones had won the race while getting an easy lead.

stop worrying about my experience within the game or my historical perspective.
they are not relevant to the argument at hand.

like I said, nothing has changed but the surrounding bullsh*t that has grown.
Ed was right on point with that one.



Repent

Did you even WATCH the travers that day?? it was pouring rain during the race so hard they actually MOVED THE START UP 3 MINUTES, costing NYRA likely a million in handle. The track was soup. But you wouldn't know that since you play at MANOR freakin' DOWNS... is that really a racetrack?!? do they have TV's there or do they broadcast the simulcast over a shortwave radio??

Someday you'll grow up. I hope.

Originally Posted by philcski

Did you even WATCH the travers that day?? it was pouring rain during the race so hard they actually MOVED THE START UP 3 MINUTES, costing NYRA likely a million in handle. The track was soup. But you wouldn't know that since you play at MANOR freakin' DOWNS... is that really a racetrack?!? do they have TV's there or do they broadcast the simulcast over a shortwave radio??

Someday you'll grow up. I hope.

Well I don't play manor Downs and was right there. It rained 20 minutes before the race briefly, then cleared up briefly, the minute they hit the line it was indeed pouring but the track was fast with no top water for the race.
If they hand't moved up the post 3 minutes it would have been run in slop.
But the track was fast, I saw the race and watched it live, not on tv.

http://horseracing.about.com/od/late...racing+results

Note the part that says:
The rain held off until after the race. Then, the storm came with such fury that New York Racing Association officials cancelled the day's 12th and final race.



Sorry, the track was fast.

[Seattleallstar]

no they didnt I remember, The Cliffs Edge won with Gary Stevens up

[philcski]

Originally Posted by oracle80

http://horseracing.about.com/od/late...racing+results

Note the part that says:
The rain held off until after the race. Then, the storm came with such fury that New York Racing Association officials cancelled the day's 12th and final race.



Sorry, the track was fast.

I remember the rain+lightning coming DURING the race... perhaps i'm wrong (i was there but inside the grandstand)... i recall they had lights on the finish, it got so dark...

either way, my point is if anything Birdstone VALIDATED Smarty Jones and repent has to give up on his childish battle against everyone on this horse he lost, miserably, 2 years ago. Like him or not you have to respect him.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Well I don't play manor Downs and was right there. It rained 20 minutes before the race briefly, then cleared up briefly, the minute they hit the line it was indeed pouring but the track was fast with no top water for the race.
If they hand't moved up the post 3 minutes it would have been run in slop.
But the track was fast, I saw the race and watched it live, not on tv.

So did I and i dont know how people are remembering it wrong. It happened just as you say.

I took off my shoes and ran to the car right after cashing. Im sure there is video somewhere.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by philcski

Did you even WATCH the travers that day?? it was pouring rain during the race so hard they actually MOVED THE START UP 3 MINUTES, costing NYRA likely a million in handle. The track was soup. But you wouldn't know that since you play at MANOR freakin' DOWNS... is that really a racetrack?!? do they have TV's there or do they broadcast the simulcast over a shortwave radio??

Someday you'll grow up. I hope.

I was there. It was dry and fast. They moved it up so it would start before the rains came.