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#1
10-14-2006, 11:50 AM
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None of them even remotely came close to establishing a successful male line ... nor did any of them sire a long string of successful graded stakes winners ... that's how. Siring allowance winners that you cashed a bet on is not the measure of a succcessful stallion. 
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#2
10-14-2006, 12:00 PM
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Just a few more recent runners who have pedigrees I'd prefer to Bernardini:
Fusaichi Pegasus Aptitude AP Valentine Medaglia d'Oro Saarland War Emblem Birdstone...you want a special dam side, his dam, Dear Birdie ranks with Toussaud, a Reines-de-Course and Blue Hen! Noble Causeway...that one is up for debate perhaps.
__________________
"Always be yourself...unless you suck!"
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#3
10-14-2006, 07:44 PM
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Siring RUNNERS is the measure of success of a stallion, not this male line obsession you seem to have. And several of the horses on your list did sire many graded SWs, even if you didn't notice. I listed for you once before the G1 winners sired by Chief's Crown and you dismissed them as irrelevant to his success as a sire, a position I found peculiar at best. You made a great sweeping statement without a scintilla of proof - "these stallions were failures because I say they were." The burden is on you to demonstrate your assertions are true, not on me to refute them. Your audience here may not have the resources to check out what you write, but I do and felt it my responsibility to point out that your statement was your personal assertion and not a statement of the opinion held by most members of the breeding industry.
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#4
10-14-2006, 10:06 PM
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... I cited 65 champions who were failures as stallions ... and you said my list was "totally absurd" ... and yet you're still dodging and dancing as you always do ... not producing a single fact or piece of relevant data ... not a blessed one ... to support your smear of me. Yeah ... you're really a pedigree "expert" ... yet you can't back up your smear tactics with a single fact. You're a phony and a creep ... and now it's evident to the entire membership of this forum. You know nothing ... you cheap poseur.
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#5
10-14-2006, 10:59 PM
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We had polite correspondence about what I expect here in terms of respectful interaction with others. You can't comply obviously, and have invited this all day.. Take a break for a few days (72 hours). If you can't treat others with a modicum of decency, I don't want you here. Nor do others who, like I, find your badgering of Pedigree Ann reprehensible. As I've stated before, I don't care what passed or passes for fair game or interaction anywhere previously. I SIMPLY WON'T ALLOW PEOPLE TO TREAT OTHERS THIS WAY HERE. I'm getting tired of making this clear... IF ANYONE DOESN'T CARE FOR THE WAY I BELIEVE MEMBERS SHOULD TALK TO ONE ANOTHER, THEN FIND SOMEWHERE ELSE TO SPEW YOUR INVECTIVE. IT WON'T BE HERE. Steve
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984. Last edited by Kasept : 10-14-2006 at 11:01 PM.
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#6
10-15-2006, 02:29 AM
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Great sires or no different than great race horses. To borrow the words of Slew's own trainer Billy Turner...you can't buy'em, you can't breed'em...they just show up.
__________________
I'm greener than Al Gore so therefore I'm green enough!
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#7
10-15-2006, 07:51 AM
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That being said....I think Steve was absolutely right to penalize him for comments like those I quoted. He and PA have a history of disagreeing....which is fine, but BB does not seem to see the difference between PA's criticism of his list, and his decision to resort to childish name-calling. That is unfortunate.
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#8
10-15-2006, 08:53 AM
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I find it hysterical when I read the breeding column by yet another of these pedigree "experts" in the DRF before a big race. They basically write how "well bred" the main contenders are. Its so funny to me because they will resort to anything to justify the breeding on the pedigrees. Whether its the mare, the sire, a 4x4 cross, or going back 75 years to a foundation mare way back in the pedigree. Gee, thats really "sharp".
Last year before the Remsen and Demoiselle, two grade twos run at Aqueduct on Thanksgiving weekend each year, one of the "all knowing pedigree columnists" wrote a column on these races. Because they are the first graded stakes run for two year olds on the dirt going a mile and an eigth each year, it was supposed to be riveting stuff. We were gonna be told who was gonna be a contender off the bloodlines. So the "pedigree analysis" for the Demoiselle is written by this expert, and every horse in the field of 5 is written up as having justification to win the race except one. The one who received no write up of the 5 horses won easily. Her name was Wonder Lady Anne L. Gee, I guess a daughter of a sire beaten a nose for the triple crown had absolutely no right to wanna go two turns huh? She went on to win a grade one at a mile and a quarter as well. I find it laughable, all of it. Everyone can tell who is "bred" to go a route of ground. But those other "minor factors" like who trains them, their running style, how sharp they are in their CURRENT form, and the pace scenario for that particular race tend to decide outcomes, not pedigrees.
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#9
10-15-2006, 09:01 AM
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We are know challenged to raise our argumentative and debating skills to reply without calling them a moron or an idiot. You have to express the same thing without using those words.
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#10
10-14-2006, 08:33 PM
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and siring a few stakes winners a year and nothing else is not the measure of a successful sire either. and how the hell do you want VGallop, Free House or Holy Bull to establish a successful male line? they have been at stud for less than a decade or are now dead. Repent
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#12
10-15-2006, 10:32 AM
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#13
10-15-2006, 10:42 AM
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Dynaformer Avg Earnings Index….. 2.19 Comparable Index ..…..1.72
__________________
I'm greener than Al Gore so therefore I'm green enough!
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#15
10-16-2006, 09:07 AM
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Gee, I haven't had power for 3 days and look what I miss. Anything been going on?
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Alcohol, the cause and solution to all of life's problems. -Homer Simpson
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