Dylan Thomas and Alexandrova to skip BC

blackthroatedwind · #1 10-12-2006, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

sucks for the fans...

Not nearly as much as your pet cowards retiring Bernardini.

I mean, honestly, was this the best you could do?

#2 10-12-2006, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Not nearly as much as your pet cowards retiring Bernardini.

I mean, honestly, was this the best you could do?

What are you talking about? More negative tone by btw....it is almost expected from you now......I'm convinced you'd argue with me about the sky being blue

....

You get mad that I present news about Darley, you get mad I present news aboutCoolmore...so sue me that they have the best horses in the world...I can't help it....I can't help that your NY small-time horsemen like James Toner can't even get Fleet Indian to the winners' circle against NYRA-breds and Pletcher turns her into a division leader...I present the news and it is the big operations that provide most of it....

#3 10-12-2006, 02:40 PM

Nice post delete, btw....classic stuff after you realized meltdown #4 on the week

blackthroatedwind · #4 10-12-2006, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Nice post delete, btw....classic stuff after you realized meltdown #4 on the week

I didn't delete it and have no idea why it was deleted.

Cajungator26 · #5 10-12-2006, 02:47 PM

I don't know about where you guys are... but around here, the sky is ORANGE and BLUE.

blackthroatedwind · #6 10-12-2006, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

What are you talking about? More negative tone by btw....it is almost expected from you now......I'm convinced you'd argue with me about the sky being blue

....

You get mad that I present news about Darley, you get mad I present news aboutCoolmore...so sue me that they have the best horses in the world...I can't help it....I can't help that your NY small-time horsemen like James Toner can't even get Fleet Indian to the winners' circle against NYRA-breds and Pletcher turns her into a division leader...I present the news and it is the big operations that provide most of it....

Just figured you wanted to check in on your favorite Sheik retiring Bernardini after his rigorous 8 race campaign. Sorry if that seemed more interesting than whether or not Godolphin's chief rival was holding out two European horses from the BC, one of whom they actually took a risk with and raced on the dirt. I'm a little confused....which Godolphin Group 1 Euro winners have we seen in America so far this year.

As for the comment about Toner vs. Pletcher? What the **** does that mean? That was quite a non-sequitor.

Cannon Shell · #7 10-12-2006, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

...I can't help that your NY small-time horsemen like James Toner can't even get Fleet Indian to the winners' circle against NYRA-breds and Pletcher turns her into a division leader.....

That was kind of uncalled for. Pletcher has $50 million dollars worth of horses that he cant get to the races, you know the ones we never hear of again after being sales toppers?

philcski · #8 10-12-2006, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

What are you talking about? More negative tone by btw....it is almost expected from you now......I'm convinced you'd argue with me about the sky being blue

....

You get mad that I present news about Darley, you get mad I present news aboutCoolmore...so sue me that they have the best horses in the world...I can't help it....I can't help that your NY small-time horsemen like James Toner can't even get Fleet Indian to the winners' circle against NYRA-breds and Pletcher turns her into a division leader...I present the news and it is the big operations that provide most of it....

Because Toner doesn't use Dr. Allday. Coincidence? I think not.

Fleet Indian is the phoniest drug job I have EVER seen. I hate this horse now that she's with Pletcher (and I normally root for ALL NYB's) and she's going to be TAP's ticket to a lengthy suspension. Horses don't just magically improve 15-20 lengths from 4 to 5... especially modestly talented fillies who went off at 9-1 in a NYB stake to close out the year.

#9 10-12-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

Because Toner doesn't use Dr. Allday. Coincidence? I think not.

Fleet Indian is the phoniest drug job I have EVER seen. I hate this horse now that she's with Pletcher (and I normally root for ALL NYB's) and she's going to be TAP's ticket to a lengthy suspension. Horses don't just magically improve 15-20 lengths from 4 to 5... especially modestly talented fillies who went off at 9-1 in a NYB stake to close out the year.

Then why doesn't he hire him if you think that is the edge? Fleet Indian has gone to the test barn for her last 6 straight wins, or wahtever it is.....competitive edges, whereever they may be, is what sepeartes 25% trainers from 12% trainers...NOT using Toner in refernce here..just making a general point....why would you not use Dr. Allday if he could take an old NY-bred mare and have her win 4 or 5 straight graded stakes?

Kasept · #10 10-12-2006, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Then why doesn't he hire him if you think that is the edge? Fleet Indian has gone to the test barn for her last 6 straight wins, or wahtever it is.....competitive edges, whereever they may be, is what sepeartes 25% trainers from 12% trainers...NOT using Toner in refernce here..just making a general point....why would you not use Dr. Allday if he could take an old NY-bred mare and have her win 4 or 5 straight graded stakes?

Steve Allday is not taking on new clients and hasn't been for a while..

philcski · #11 10-12-2006, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Then why doesn't he hire him if you think that is the edge? Fleet Indian has gone to the test barn for her last 6 straight wins, or wahtever it is.....competitive edges, whereever they may be, is what sepeartes 25% trainers from 12% trainers...NOT using Toner in refernce here..just making a general point....why would you not use Dr. Allday if he could take an old NY-bred mare and have her win 4 or 5 straight graded stakes?

The "test barn" is a bunch of mularkey as far as im concerned. do you really think NYRA wouldn't "look the other way" if their most important trainer were a little over the limit on this way or that (especially considering things like the recent photo finish incident in indiana?) The thing that bugs me here is Pletcher has legitimately good horses like English Channel that DON'T need this crap, why risk your career on a horse like Fleet Indian when you already have half of the top 10 in the distaff division anyways??

Cannon Shell · #12 10-12-2006, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

The "test barn" is a bunch of mularkey as far as im concerned. do you really think NYRA wouldn't "look the other way" if their most important trainer were a little over the limit on this way or that (especially considering things like the recent photo finish incident in indiana?) The thing that bugs me here is Pletcher has legitimately good horses like English Channel that DON'T need this crap, why risk your career on a horse like Fleet Indian when you already have half of the top 10 in the distaff division anyways??

NYRA doesn't do the testing, the NY racing and wagering board does. I am sure that the "look the other way" method has been used in NY but also in other states.
If you believe that Pletcher has an unfair advantage then why would he only use it on Fleet Indian? How do you know that English Channel is "legitimately good"? I dont understand your argument on this?
I could understand if you said that he has the most talented barn in the history of American horseracing and are disguisted because you feel he has an unfair advantage as well as the best horses. But to claim that you can tell which horses have been illegally enhanced and which ones haven't been, kind of demeans the whole crux of your argument.

hoovesupsideyourhead · #13 10-12-2006, 09:21 PM

good for them they have the best horses this year...im on the roll call no 2..as for them not racing dini after the bc ..who cares..hes earned a life of good living for performing well..i mean i dont want to see another funny cide deal....yes gelding blah blah blah...dini is a great horse and could continue to spank all the compitition ..and make money..so why not let him make money in the shed..its the same thing but he wont get injurys ..beating the same wanna bees over and over....and cannon shell...you da man..

philcski · #14 10-13-2006, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

NYRA doesn't do the testing, the NY racing and wagering board does. I am sure that the "look the other way" method has been used in NY but also in other states.
If you believe that Pletcher has an unfair advantage then why would he only use it on Fleet Indian? How do you know that English Channel is "legitimately good"? I dont understand your argument on this?
I could understand if you said that he has the most talented barn in the history of American horseracing and are disguisted because you feel he has an unfair advantage as well as the best horses. But to claim that you can tell which horses have been illegally enhanced and which ones haven't been, kind of demeans the whole crux of your argument.

Fine, I'll state on public record I've been to his barn several times recently and played with basically all of his top beasts, you can tell immediately which ones have been "enhanced" based on (a) their demeanor and (b) their eyes.

On top of that, I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to determine that EC is (and was) a quality individual from the day he broke his maiden, while Fleet Indian has improved nearly 20 lengths from 4 to 5. That just does not happen to horses with established form...

blackthroatedwind · #15 10-12-2006, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Hey hey. Toner has trained some very good ones. And lets not forget, Fleet Indian was undefeated when I think she ran in the Alabama. Never was quite right after that, until late last year. Then she went to Pletcher. I think BTW was referring to the fact that you threw in a little jab at the end about the fans.

That would be correct.

Now, things got so exciting around here that I missed the 3pm show of " Old Joy ". I am not happy.

The Bid · #16 10-12-2006, 02:49 PM

I have nothing to say on Dylan Thomas, or Alexandrova. However,the comment about someone buying the sky and retiring it made me laugh pretty hard.

blackthroatedwind · #17 10-12-2006, 03:00 PM

I guess after the Prix De L'Opera this isn't that surprising. I also wonder if after the performance of the filly that seemed close to Mandesha, Freedonia, in the Turf Classic, suddenly that group seemed a LOT weaker.

Kasept · #18 10-12-2006, 03:16 PM

Where to start?

BTW.. I blanked the early post in an attempt to quell an instant conflagration, but it didn't actually matter so it's back up.. and I'll add to the flames myself.

I thought this pair could add intrigue to the Cup and am sorry to see that they won't come, especially the filly...

As for Jim Toner Joel... WTF? Are you kidding? That's who you belittle? You couldn't pick a guy in NY more widely respected for his horsemanship and well liked for his character. His record is impeccable and his career is filled with enviable successes. He's as "small time" as he chooses to be basically training for the Phillips' only..

blackthroatedwind · #19 10-12-2006, 03:23 PM

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but it felt like an argument was being started and I jumped in. Maybe I'm oversensitive, but when Godolphin's chief supporter on the site ( which Joel admittedly is....which doesn't make him a bad guy ) doesn't even check in on the " Bernardini retired " thread ( even if it's to say what he did in this thread...that he hadn't heard that ) but makes his first post after that thread about Coolmore ( Godolphin's big rival ) withholding horses from the BC, while suggesting one obviously had his heart broken by Bernardini ( Who as someone pointed out was always twenty in front of Dylan Thomas ) it seems to me he is looking to stir things up.

So I obliged.

Geez, I thought I was being nice....giving him what he wanted. Hey, I waited three minutes. Believe me, I'm not a patient guy, it was a LOOOOOOOOOONG three minutes.

brockguy · #20 10-12-2006, 03:35 PM

alex would have had agreat chance in the filly and mares , esp with the extended furlong...
dylan can come back better next year but Coolmore have had some mixed successes with older horses and you never know..

It may leave the door open for Scorpion (who just returned froma year out) to go to KY.. maybe not but he is a very good horse!!