Best Player in the NFL....

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by clyde

It's their utter stupidity which makes them that way.



Utter, irrefutable,irrevocable,unequivocal and consummate stupidity.

Obviously we have different views on what criteria makes a player great. You and utter stupidity go hand in hand. Cribbs while not a great player isnt no slouch either. He still hasnt had a winning season, won a playoff game or yet alone a Super Bowl. Seems like you feel stats make a player great vice winning playoff games or a Super Bowl. Maybe he has had a winning season with Cleveland but he definitely hasnt won a playoff game or Super Bowl.

[Danzig]

a player can be a great one, consistently, without a playoff or superbowl ring. it is a team sport, with a great many other players helping to make or break the team. take the colts opener for instance, peyton looked awesome, and his stats looked like a winning qb's stats-but they lost the game.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

a player can be a great one, consistently, without a playoff or superbowl ring. it is a team sport, with a great many other players helping to make or break the team. take the colts opener for instance, peyton looked awesome, and his stats looked like a winning qb's stats-but they lost the game.

PEYTON consistently puts that team on his back, and carries it. He's great. He's got his ring. Peyton, Montana, and Elway were far better than that choker Marino.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

PEYTON consistently puts that team on his back, and carries it. He's great. He's got his ring. Peyton, Montana, and Elway were far better than that choker Marino.

Right. Let's remember who his team beat and how Manning 'put that team on his back' en route to that Super Bowl, shall we?

• 23-8 over the Kansas City Chiefs, coached by Herman Edwards (out of football) and quarterbacked by Trent Green (out of football, threw more picks than TDs that year). Manning threw 3 INTs in this game and the main reason the Colts won was the defense's ability to stop a completely gassed Larry Johnson (416 carries that year, would never be the same).

• 15-6 over the Baltimore Ravens, once again, not because of Manning, who threw 0 TDs and 2 INTs that day. Baltimore was QB'ed by an over-the-hill Steve McNair and their RB was an over-the-hill Jamal Lewis. McNair's best WR was Mark Clayton, who's never broken 50 receptions or 700 yards since 2006. Manning never got his team into the end zone and they won with 5 Adam Vinatieri field goals.

• 38-34 over the New England Patriots. This is the game everyone remembers, as the Colts fell behind 21-3 at home to the Pats before roaring back to win in the 2nd half. Manning threw for 349 yards in this game, but only 1 TD and 1 INT, and let's remember who he was facing. Brady's great, but his #1 WR that year was Reche Caldwell. Need I say more? This was also the last game New England's washed up RB Corey Dillon would ever play. A far cry from the 18-1 Pats team of the following year.

• 29-17 over the Chicago Bears. Manning has a respectable game of 247, 1 TD and 1 INT, but again, who was on the other sideline? Rex Grossman, who had calls for his head all season and postseason that year despite the Bears going 13-3. The same guy who's started all of 8 games in the NFL since the Super Bowl. He was predictably awful in this game, throwing for 165, 1 TD and 2 INTs. And let's not even mention the coaching discrepancy.

Manning's stat line in the 4 games that postseason: 97-163, 1,034 yards, 3 TDs, 7 INTs. A whopping 66.4 QB rating, compared to his lifetime 95.5 number.

But yet this brilliant stretch is what makes him great and not a loser like Marino.

Listen, as a Jet fan, nothing makes me happier than the fact that Marino never won anything and became synonymous with the word 'choker' in the NFL. But Manning was as lucky as lucky gets to win his one Super Bowl and he should be far more famous for his failures in the postseason than his one 'success'. He's probably the greatest regular season quarterback who ever lived, but this is what people who actually know and watch the game will associate him with way before the one time he managed to not play worse than Rex Grossman.

The guy is 9-9 in the postseason despite his team averaging 12.2 wins per season in 10 playoff years. But yeah, he's great and Marino's a choker.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Right. Let's remember who his team beat and how Manning 'put that team on his back' en route to that Super Bowl, shall we?

• 23-8 over the Kansas City Chiefs, coached by Herman Edwards (out of football) and quarterbacked by Trent Green (out of football, threw more picks than TDs that year). Manning threw 3 INTs in this game and the main reason the Colts won was the defense's ability to stop a completely gassed Larry Johnson (416 carries that year, would never be the same).

• 15-6 over the Baltimore Ravens, once again, not because of Manning, who threw 0 TDs and 2 INTs that day. Baltimore was QB'ed by an over-the-hill Steve McNair and their RB was an over-the-hill Jamal Lewis. McNair's best WR was Mark Clayton, who's never broken 50 receptions or 700 yards since 2006. Manning never got his team into the end zone and they won with 5 Adam Vinatieri field goals.

• 38-34 over the New England Patriots. This is the game everyone remembers, as the Colts fell behind 21-3 at home to the Pats before roaring back to win in the 2nd half. Manning threw for 349 yards in this game, but only 1 TD and 1 INT, and let's remember who he was facing. Brady's great, but his #1 WR that year was Reche Caldwell. Need I say more? This was also the last game New England's washed up RB Corey Dillon would ever play. A far cry from the 18-1 Pats team of the following year.

• 29-17 over the Chicago Bears. Manning has a respectable game of 247, 1 TD and 1 INT, but again, who was on the other sideline? Rex Grossman, who had calls for his head all season and postseason that year despite the Bears going 13-3. The same guy who's started all of 8 games in the NFL since the Super Bowl. He was predictably awful in this game, throwing for 165, 1 TD and 2 INTs. And let's not even mention the coaching discrepancy.

Manning's stat line in the 4 games that postseason: 97-163, 1,034 yards, 3 TDs, 7 INTs. A whopping 66.4 QB rating, compared to his lifetime 95.5 number.

But yet this brilliant stretch is what makes him great and not a loser like Marino.

Listen, as a Jet fan, nothing makes me happier than the fact that Marino never won anything and became synonymous with the word 'choker' in the NFL. But Manning was as lucky as lucky gets to win his one Super Bowl and he should be far more famous for his failures in the postseason than his one 'success'. He's probably the greatest regular season quarterback who ever lived, but this is what people who actually know and watch the game will associate him with way before the one time he managed to not play worse than Rex Grossman.

The guy is 9-9 in the postseason despite his team averaging 12.2 wins per season in 10 playoff years. But yeah, he's great and Marino's a choker.

Agree with everything you say. That aside, Manning and Marino are BOTH great. Manning IS a choker and gets flustered often when it counts the most. Marino never had much of a shot to get to where it counts the most to prove it. I think the tag of him being a choker is ridiculous. The one time he makes the superbowl, he faces one of the best teams ever playing in their own back yard.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Agree with everything you say. That aside, Manning and Marino are BOTH great. Manning IS a choker and gets flustered often when it counts the most. Marino never had much of a shot to get to where it counts the most to prove it. I think the tag of him being a choker is ridiculous. The one time he makes the superbowl, he faces one of the best teams ever playing in their own back yard.

Shut up,Dahla.

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by clyde

Shut up,Dahla.

You should take your own advice.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Agree with everything you say. That aside, Manning and Marino are BOTH great. Manning IS a choker and gets flustered often when it counts the most. Marino never had much of a shot to get to where it counts the most to prove it. I think the tag of him being a choker is ridiculous. The one time he makes the superbowl, he faces one of the best teams ever playing in their own back yard.

didnt Manning choke at TN also?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Listen, as a Jet fan, nothing makes me happier than the fact that Marino never won anything and became synonymous with the word 'choker' in the NFL. But Manning was as lucky as lucky gets to win his one Super Bowl and he should be far more famous for his failures in the postseason than his one 'success'. He's probably the greatest regular season quarterback who ever lived, but this is what people who actually know and watch the game will associate him with way before the one time he managed to not play worse than Rex Grossman.

The guy is 9-9 in the postseason despite his team averaging 12.2 wins per season in 10 playoff years. But yeah, he's great and Marino's a choker.

Joey, I think you will one day have to face a challenge called High Blood pressure. Just a wild guess. I don't think he's had great teams, but he's made it to the big dance multiple times, and got a ring with one of 'em. Is he Joe Montana in the clutch? No.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Joey, I think you will one day have to face a challenge called High Blood pressure. Just a wild guess. I don't think he's had great teams, but he's made it to the big dance multiple times, and got a ring with one of 'em. Is he Joe Montana in the clutch? No.

Right, this is what you do when you're shown up about something. Don't address the issue and tell the other person they have an unrelated mental problem. And you don't see the irony in that. I think you suffer from agoraphobia. Just a wild guess.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Right, this is what you do when you're shown up about something. Don't address the issue and tell the other person they have an unrelated mental problem. And you don't see the irony in that. I think you suffer from agoraphobia. Just a wild guess.

Ain't a mental problem. Ya temper is immense. You could pull a house down the street over something stupid like this. I'm in L.A. Don't have a team. Wouldn't you think I'd be objective about this crap? What would I have against (or for) Marino, or Manning? One was good. The other was great. I addressed your statement already. I said Manning had not that great of teams, and isn't the most clutch quarterback in the post.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Right. Let's remember who his team beat and FL. But Manning was as lucky as lucky gets to win his one Super Bowl and he should be far more famous for his failures in the postseason than his one 'success'. He's probably the greatest regular season quarterback who ever lived, but this is what people who actually know and watch the game will associate him with way before the one time he managed to not play worse than Rex Grossman.

The guy is 9-9 in the postseason despite his team averaging 12.2 wins per season in 10 playoff years. But yeah, he's great and Marino's a choker.

You think Peyton Manning and LeBron James are pretty much one and the same career wise for the most part? I've actually read articles comparing the two and the "great" regular season, not nearly as great post season type players

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by Danzig

a player can be a great one, consistently, without a playoff or superbowl ring. it is a team sport, with a great many other players helping to make or break the team. take the colts opener for instance, peyton looked awesome, and his stats looked like a winning qb's stats-but they lost the game.

I agree with Peyton being a great player. He has a ring, won playoff games, and has had numerous winning seasons already.

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

Obviously we have different views on what criteria makes a player great. You and utter stupidity go hand in hand. Cribbs while not a great player isnt no slouch either. He still hasnt had a winning season, won a playoff game or yet alone a Super Bowl. Seems like you feel stats make a player great vice winning playoff games or a Super Bowl. Maybe he has had a winning season with Cleveland but he definitely hasnt won a playoff game or Super Bowl.

So by this reasoning....

Jim "pig nose" Plunkett
Jeff Hostetler
Trent Dilfer
Brad Johnson
Mark Rypien
Doug Williams
and countless others

.............are great football players.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Crown@club

So by this reasoning....

Jim "pig nose" Plunkett
Jeff Hostetler
Trent Dilfer
Brad Johnson
Mark Rypien
Doug Williams
and countless others

.............are great football players.

They aren't great, but, to be great, you better do something that even these guys got done. Again, this is about modern-era guys. If someone goes to the post 10 times, and loses the only Superbowl he got his team to, then, he wasn't great.

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

They aren't great, but, to be great, you better do something that even these guys got done. Again, this is about modern-era guys. If someone goes to the post 10 times, and loses the only Superbowl he got his team to, then, he wasn't great.

This is an article that list 4th quarter comebacks. Not really a big deal as the stat was really created for John Elway.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=3401

But most Super Bowl winning teams are not usually flukes (except for the Patriots first Super Bowl victory), but are complete package teams.

Was there anything weak with Montana's teams? Steve Young's? Both great QB's.

John Elway couldn't win one until he finally got a running game.
Brett Favre only won one, and his team had no flaws whatsoever.
I will always think that Peyton Manning looked like Trent Dilfer in his win over the Bears. The Bears known to stop the run all season had no answer on stopping Addai and Rhodes. I still think Rhodes or the offensive line was the MVP of that game.

But when you talk about Marino and Dolphins, its always one dimensional. They had no running game period.

I'm not a fan of hypotheticals, but what happens if you put Marino on any of those teams I mentioned? Does he choke it?

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by Crown@club

This is an article that list 4th quarter comebacks. Not really a big deal as the stat was really created for John Elway.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=3401

But most Super Bowl winning teams are not usually flukes (except for the Patriots first Super Bowl), but are complete package teams.

Was there anything weak with Montana's teams? Steve Young's? Both great QB's.

John Elway couldn't win one until he finally got a running game.
Brett Favre only won one, and his team had no flaws whatsoever.
I will always think that Peyton Manning looked like Trent Dilfer in his win over the Bears. The Bears known to stop the run all season had no answer on stopping Addai and Rhodes. I still think Rhodes or the offensive line was the MVP of that game.

But when you talk about Marino and Dolphins, its always one dimensional. They had no running game period.

I'm not a fan of hypotheticals, but what happens if you put Marino on any of those teams I mentioned? Does he choke it?

You have brought about a great point with Marino. I also agree with you, it doesnt hurt a QB to have a good supporting cast of players.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Crown@club

This is an article that list 4th quarter comebacks. Not really a big deal as the stat was really created for John Elway.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=3401

I'm not a fan of hypotheticals, but what happens if you put Marino on any of those teams I mentioned? Does he choke it?

Yep

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Crown@club

This is an article that list 4th quarter comebacks. Not really a big deal as the stat was really created for John Elway.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=3401


I'm not a fan of hypotheticals, but what happens if you put Marino on any of those teams I mentioned? Does he choke it?

You think Manning has had any more to work with than Marino did?

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

You think Manning has had any more to work with than Marino did?

Like I mentioned before the Colts had a running game with Addai and Rhodes (James before the Super Bowls year). Something Marino never had.

Their defense was in full strength by the time they made the playoffs. Like Joey mentioned before, they were very lucky to pull off playoff victories with Manning playing like crap. The MVP of the Superbowl should of went to the running game against a defense that had not given up anything all year until then.