Flower Alley to stand for $25,000 at Three Chimneys

Originally Posted by sumitas

you are correct. so he'll get many mares crossing with the Mr P and ND. the horses may run ok for a while but the breeding does not improve the breed.

agreed.....

[Danzig]

anyone who wants distorted humor, but can't afford him, will be going after his best son to date. 10x less the stud fee, he'll fill his book. he did very well at three--it's not like very many give a rats behind what a horse does at four.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

anyone who wants distorted humor, but can't afford him, will be going after his best son to date. 10x less the stud fee, he'll fill his book. he did very well at three--it's not like very many give a rats behind what a horse does at four.

Third best son to date. Best intact son to date.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Third best son to date. Best intact son to date.

HAHAHA! best son with two goolies attached.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

agreed.....

Explain. What does improve the breed mean?

And all I gotta say if I wanted to try and get a good race horse....

Id have a bunch of mares that had been good ON the track. A mare that had a certain male in the background would not be a priority. I would hunt down running females. Preferably those had been in a good number of tough races and lost due to circumstance, not ability.

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Explain. What does improve the breed mean?

there are allready tons of horses around with ND and Mr P., Raise A Native, tripling them, quadrupling them, or more leads to even more unsoundness, albeit you may get some speed. FA has 5 Native Dancers too. Hasn't stopped breeders from going to Songandaprayer and his 3 Raise A Natives but unfortunately the soundness just isn't there.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by sumitas

there are allready tons of horses around with ND and Mr P., Raise A Native, tripling them, quadrupling them, or more leads to even more unsoundness, albeit you may get some speed. FA has 5 Native Dancers too. Hasn't stopped breeders from going to Songandaprayer and his 3 Raise A Natives but unfortunately the soundness just isn't there.

Amen to that... it's a shame too.

[Cannon Shell]

There are plenty of mares that will fit this horse without the breed collapsing. I think that he is priced about right for the current market. We still dont have any idea if DH will be sucessful sire of sires but $25000 for a high profile, well sired colt with speed influences is not out of character in this market.

[sumitas]

that's the sales pitch allright. but his breeding is not sound.

Originally Posted by sumitas

there are allready tons of horses around with ND and Mr P., Raise A Native, tripling them, quadrupling them, or more leads to even more unsoundness, albeit you may get some speed. FA has 5 Native Dancers too. Hasn't stopped breeders from going to Songandaprayer and his 3 Raise A Natives but unfortunately the soundness just isn't there.

I was suprised to learn that a study done at Cornell University showed that the throughbred population is not as highly inbred as they thought it would be based on all this breeding between relatives. THere is still quite a bit of diversity in the T-bred population even with all this inattention to diversity displayed by breeders trying to please the market.

I was very suprised. The soundness issue becomes even more of a mess when a bunch of males go to the shed at 3 and dont run that much. You never really know. I would use a male that had been on the track for a while. So one looks around, trys to sift through all the geldings, and you find what?

Maybe a bunch of ole boys with undesirable backgrounds. If these boys are sound, and can still run at older ages, I would give that a shot... If I really wanted a RUNNER; A horse that I planned to run for the sake of the actual intention of the sport. A real racehorse. Not a breeder. Then place the horse appropriately based on ability. And sit back and enjoy multiple years of racing with an individual horse. Thatsa what ida do. Have some fun maybe.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I was suprised to learn that a study done at Cornell University showed that the throughbred population is not as highly inbred as they thought it would be based on all this breeding between relatives. THere is still quite a bit of diversity in the T-bred population even with all this inattention to diversity displayed by breeders trying to please the market.

I was very suprised. The soundness issue becomes even more of a mess when a bunch of males go to the shed at 3 and dont run that much. You never really know. I would use a male that had been on the track for a while. So one looks around, trys to sift through all the geldings, and you find what?

Maybe a bunch of ole boys with undesirable backgrounds. If these boys are sound, and can still run at older ages, I would give that a shot... If I really wanted a RUNNER; A horse that I planned to run for the sake of the actual intention of the sport. A real racehorse. Not a breeder. Then place the horse appropriately based on ability. And sit back and enjoy multiple years of racing with an individual horse. Thatsa what ida do. Have some fun maybe.

That's precisely the reason I love that El Prado, Mr. Livingston so much... he raced sound until he was 7 (and retired sound), has an affordable stud fee and looks good to boot.

[sumitas]

my only knock on him is his family. a very average group. other than that he's got a super pedigree, soundness, looks, price...just so much depends on the saleability that sound breeding takes a back seat often.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by sumitas

my only knock on him is his family. a very average group. other than that he's got a super pedigree, soundness, looks, price...just so much depends on the saleability that sound breeding takes a back seat often.

If I was breeding for a horse that would race, I guess the saleability wouldn't matter as much. I just happened to look at Mr. L and they have his stud fee as "private" for 2007... interesting.

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

That's precisely the reason I love that El Prado, Mr. Livingston so much... he raced sound until he was 7 (and retired sound), has an affordable stud fee and looks good to boot.

Noted. Give me a runner that stays sound anyday. These 2 year olds that take off like bats out of hell speeddemons and breakdown... forget it. For me:

No racing at two. Get into it a three. Start the tough stuff with a mature horse at four. And retirement at 7 sounds like a wonderful time. Maybe even run at 8 tappering off as needed. Build a huge fan following in the claiming ranks. Sell hats. Rich. Its a plan. A bad plan, but I could see that as being very enjoyable. I would plan on entering my 8 year old in 50,000 claiming races, Non winners of 3 lifetime. Think I would have to look around a bit to find a race.

[sumitas]

pg you make sense. but the racing does not , where 2 yr olds are pushed beyond their limits and are fried at 3...you are actually talking about a career for a horse, amazing stuff in the current racing climate geared to sales.