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#1
06-11-2006, 07:52 AM
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Mike, Im not playing the victim act. EC lost and I admitted he lost to a better horse yesterday. You are acting like I am in denial....I HAVE ADMITTED HE LOST. I dont even hate Cacique, he is a WONDERFUL horse that I do like being that he is a half to one of my favorite turf mares INTERCONTINENTAL.
The fact is that EC and Cacique have faced each other 2 times, with each one winning once. How do you prove who is the better horse? 
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#2
06-11-2006, 07:57 AM
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Valid point Kev. Perhaps the rematch expected will give us some clarity rather than just opinions. You know I LOVE EC as well. I always have. And I think they are 1-2 in the US as grass horses. But this BS that I am a bully when I bust someones stones when I am right, and when anyone else doesnt they aren't is ridiculous. I mean look, Tim was making fun of the horse BEFORE they even ran yesterday with the homework thing. And you were all over us (at the other board) for weeks. Thats low, double standard here. And you may note that I watch races Kev, I just made an excuse on another thread for a horse yesterday that I wanted to lose. I call em like I see em, and Gomez got schooled again yesterday, this time to my advantage. So I really dont wanna hear any of that bullshit either. I call bad rides whether I have the horse or not when I see bad rides.
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#3
06-11-2006, 08:03 AM
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You have to admit then that EC unwillingness to settle early on for JV cost him energy for the stretch run home...surely you can admit that?
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#4
06-11-2006, 08:08 AM
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Mike, I would not have been mocking you had Relaxed Gesture or Grey Swallow won this race. I would suspect you had a lot more riding on Cacique winning than I did with the other 2 (GS or RG). In fact I used Cacique in my pick 4's and was live into the Belmont but didnt use Jazil on any tickets. You are wrong when you say I would have mocked you. Yes I have in the past but I knew this was your big single yesterday and I dont hit below the belt. You know better than that. I was prepared to make a big win bet on Relaxed Gesture but didnt really love the 4/1 odds.
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#5
06-11-2006, 08:10 AM
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I didnt use English Channel on any of my tickets and have no love for this horse. He absolutely killed me on Derby Day, killed me by beating Cacique. I will applaud his effort, perfect trip or not. He got beat what, a head, a nose by 3 very good horses.
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#6
06-11-2006, 08:13 AM
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i was surprised cacique was sent off at only 2.2-1 but as the old saying goes, better to have a low price winner than a long price loser. I backed Relaxed Gesture with the ground in his favour, but looking again, he could probably have done with another furlong and a half. There is no denying that cacique is a talented horse but things never seemed to fall his way before now in a top race.
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#7
06-11-2006, 08:18 AM
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Kev,
look, you aren't able to put aside emotion yet and talk without emotion isn analyzing races. I mean, cacique's trip in the Woodford was quite bad, and yet you went on record as saying you didnt see anything and the trip was ok. Now, you want to argue about a little rankness and "energy loss"? Step back and think about this. Two great horses and I am looking forward to a rematch.
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#8
06-11-2006, 08:23 AM
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Great Race - Great Camera Angles
Was really impressed and happy with the result. Thanks Oracle 80. Did bet early and often...
Liked the camera shots in the backstretch and coming around the turn. Thought Prado did a great job conserving enough energy to win be a nose.... Difference might have been the jockey.... Lava Man continues to impress out here on the turf in the last two starts. Monster efforts but not sure how that translates against the best in yesterday's races.... PSH
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#9
06-11-2006, 08:35 AM
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Ok now that the ball busting is over with I will give you my real take on the race. Neither cacique or English Channel is at their best on the lead. I didn't feel that the grass favored speed yesterday. I was shocked and stunned when Pommes Frites actually got caught loping so loose and slow earlier in the day(different course, but still). Neither Johnny nor Edgar wanted the lead, and with good reason. I think that EC was set for a bounce off that lifetime top last time and that alone made the difference down the stretch. Gesture as i said many times does not really want to run by anybody in a dogfight. Race really settled nothing in terms of which one of those 4 is "best" overall as a horse. A race run under freakish soft and slow fractions as a conditioon will usually not prove anything. This one can be filed under that label. I think cacique was the most fit horse yesterday(EC was fit but set for a bounce off his lifetime top) as Gesture hadn't run in a long time, Swallow had only had one race against inferior horses that didn't tighten him enough, and EC was set to regress. Plain and simple, it was just Caciques day. But I spoke of those premises on all three of the others BEFORE the race, not after. Race proved nothing yesterday in terms of which one of these four is actually the best. Ok? Thats an unbiased view of what i really feel without the ball busting.
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#10
06-11-2006, 09:06 AM
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You, of all people, have talked about how a horse expends energy when rank like that and wanting to run, but yet the jock is trying to rate him.
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#11
06-11-2006, 09:08 AM
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Hybrid Mode
