Track privitization

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Joey,

There's no plan as of yet. But even privitized, the entity running MTH, (NJ racing properties, et al..), are subject to the state's skim ('taxation') in the form of takeout. Remember that the state will still regulate the sport/run a racing commission, etc., and takeout funds that as well as other state coffer projects..

Thanks Steve. That's about what I figured, but with all this talk of privitization being the only way to continue racing in NJ if the governor doesn't change his mind, I was wondering if the actual collection side for the state would change at all.

It might make a good incentive for a private firm if the skim was reduced so to allow more upside for the investors and possibly expand the field of bidders.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by HomerS

NJ racing has contributed far more to the states coffers then it has "lost" and its not even close.

Really, how about some specifics? The harness track is bleeding money like you wouldn't believe. They are losing 10s of millions a year. Where does that come from exactly? Better, the Meadowlands original stadium is still not paid off, including the Harness track. It was all part of the expo authority which has failed miserably.

Operating budget needs to = Revs coming in

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by HomerS

Politicians rolled over the Meadowlands debt. Not the tracks.

Hell it was the tracks revenue that helped build the original Giants stadium to begin with

Read joeydb's post.

Drinking cool aid of south jersey politicians with vested interests in "protecting" the casinos not best way to get informed about this issue.

How much takeout do you think the tracks have created for the state since they opened?

NOW is the issue, not then. There used to be 25k at the Big M on a Wednesday in the 70's....That's not today. I live in the NOW.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

NOW is the issue, not then. There used to be 25k at the Big M on a Wednesday in the 70's....That's not today. I live in the NOW.

Dude.. People used to gather on the steps of the Stock Exchange to buy stocks too. If you live in the NOW then why do you not see that attendence at the track is meaningless due to the technological changes in wagering.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by jms62

Dude.. People used to gather on the steps of the Stock Exchange to buy stocks too. If you live in the NOW then why do you not see that attendence at the track is meaningless due to the technological changes in wagering.

Huh, handle is down about 10% year over year(national). And that's after a year over year decline last year.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Huh, handle is down about 10% year over year(national). And that's after a year over year decline last year.

Did you account for the recession / depression we are now in?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by jms62

Did you account for the recession / depression we are now in?

YES!!!! Which is why I'm talking about ending subsidies in general, not specific to racing or any area.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Huh, handle is down about 10% year over year(national). And that's after a year over year decline last year.

IT's really simple as I see it. Subsidy is a hot button word that people relate to bailing out the wall street gamblers. Mom and Pop want nothing to do with subsidies. Atlantic City didn't subsidize NJ racing.. It was a business agreement, a contract.. Atlantic City agreed to pay x million dollars if NJ didn't seek slots. NJ racing did what it was required to do to receive payment for services rendered. Now AC is calling that a subsidy in order to unite the masses against Horse Racing.. Christie is calling it a subsidy because his fat ass seems to be in bed with AC. AC no longer wants to enter in such a contract as they have the right to. NJ needs to get on the ballot, slots and sports betting at the racetracks so the industry can be competitive with neighboring states and save the BILLIONS of dollars of revenue that horse racing produces on track and off.

The racinos are a band-aid. When all of the tracks get them it will starve the smaller tracks that have them now.

What they need to do is add the racinos and legalize all drugs and prostitution but just let the tracks sell the drugs and whores.

That way the tracks can make money and still be horrendously incompetent.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by HomerS

And as a follow up, since we are talking about the "NOW" should all businesses facing hard times now be shut down?

This is public money. Horse racing can and should be able to survive without public money....We aren't talking about your garbage pick up and police force.

[philcski]

They're watching in Vegas, too:
http://www.gamingtoday.com/industry/...aryland_casino

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

This is public money. Horse racing can and should be able to survive without public money....We aren't talking about your garbage pick up and police force.

Like automakers and banks?

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

This is public money. Horse racing can and should be able to survive without public money....We aren't talking about your garbage pick up and police force.

If government was simply OK with receiving income taxes on the thousands of people who work in the industry and taxes on items like admissions and concessions (where applicable), rather than acting as a parasite with parimutuel taxes, OTBs and the like, horse racing would probably be a self-sustaining, healthy industry. The problem isn't that government is getting too little from racing, it's that government is already getting too much. And now, when asked to give up a little of the excess that is is already receiving from the over-taxed industry, the politicians spin it into government "subsidizing" racing. Priceless!!

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by HomerS

NJ racing has contributed far more to the states coffers then it has "lost" and its not even close.

True. In fact I saw an article yesterday on Paulick Report or Equidaily -- one of them -- that reported that NJ Racing only started losing money at all after 2007, when the surrounding states were getting slots at their tracks, and NJ tracks were forbidden to do so by the State government.

That was also the rationale of the "subsidy" from A.C. -- that the casinos would pay the tracks not to put in slots.

[randallscott35]

How much more straightforward can this be?

“(The New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority) is out of money,” Hanson said. “It’s not the role of the state to subsidize but to work with the private sector.”

I love horse racing. But why should horse racing not have to stand on its own? So a homeless shelter or early start programs for kids aren't funded? These are things Christie is proposing.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...mission-report

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

How much more straightforward can this be?

“(The New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority) is out of money,” Hanson said. “It’s not the role of the state to subsidize but to work with the private sector.”

I love horse racing. But why should horse racing not have to stand on its own? So a homeless shelter or early start programs for kids aren't funded? These are things Christie is proposing.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...mission-report

But it's OK for Trenton to subsidize the casinos for decades? That's OK?

Boosting racing interests via the casino skim has a positive influence on the state's economy that likely pays back the alleged subsidy.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Kasept

But it's OK for Trenton to subsidize the casinos for decades? That's OK?

Boosting racing interests via the casino skim has a positive influence on the state's economy that likely pays back the alleged subsidy.

Where did I say it was OK to subsidize the casinos? No where. Get a grip. I am not for anything that is broken, including the dump that is AC.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Where did I say it was OK to subsidize the casinos? No where.

That's fine. But if it's a public policy discussion, which you tangetally initiated with the response to Joey's post, this side of the equation needs to brought to everyone's attention that is hearing the Governor's mouthpiece talk ONLY about racing as being subsidized.

http://www.drf.com/news/two-voices-r...ersey-horsemen

Ray Bateman's letter doesn't seem available anymore, but he laid out the outrageous series of expenditures Trenton has heeped on AC. Here's an excerpt:

"The state’s tax on casino revenues is one of the lowest in the nation and a little more than half the casino tax in Pennsylvania. Gov. Whitman had a $300 million tunnel and roadway built to the Borgata casino; Gov. Florio ‘ordered’ the Sports Authority to build and operate (always at a loss) a new $275 million convention center in Atlantic City; later the west hall of the old convention center was rebuilt by the same authority for more than $100 million; a special train for gamblers from Philadelphia to Atlantic City was bought and paid for at New Jersey expense and operates annually at a loss, as does the ACES train express from New York; two new bus terminals were built (for the casinos, of course); and the huge state police presence in Atlantic City was not totally paid for by the casinos. The Atlantic City airport was improved with state and federal funds. When casinos comp gamblers in their rooms they do not pay the state hotel room tax – a big number loss each year to the state. No question that the casinos have enjoyed sweetheart relationships with all past governors and legislatures. Sad, but true. And now they want more and are still unwilling to compromise on slots at the Meadowlands, or on help for the horse industry – both essentially North Jersey concerns.”

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Kasept

http://www.drf.com/news/two-voices-r...ersey-horsemen

Ray Bateman's letter doesn't seem available anymore, but he laid out the outrageous series of expenditures Trenton has heeped on AC. Here's an excerpt:

"The state’s tax on casino revenues is one of the lowest in the nation and a little more than half the casino tax in Pennsylvania. Gov. Whitman had a $300 million tunnel and roadway built to the Borgata casino; Gov. Florio ‘ordered’ the Sports Authority to build and operate (always at a loss) a new $275 million convention center in Atlantic City; later the west hall of the old convention center was rebuilt by the same authority for more than $100 million; a special train for gamblers from Philadelphia to Atlantic City was bought and paid for at New Jersey expense and operates annually at a loss, as does the ACES train express from New York; two new bus terminals were built (for the casinos, of course); and the huge state police presence in Atlantic City was not totally paid for by the casinos. The Atlantic City airport was improved with state and federal funds. When casinos comp gamblers in their rooms they do not pay the state hotel room tax – a big number loss each year to the state. No question that the casinos have enjoyed sweetheart relationships with all past governors and legislatures. Sad, but true. And now they want more and are still unwilling to compromise on slots at the Meadowlands, or on help for the horse industry – both essentially North Jersey concerns.”

All true. I live in the area and I remember each one of these. Good job Steve.

This issue will hinge on the North versus South political power struggle. There is no merit in preferring A.C. over the tracks. Ideally we should be able to have both thrive to some extent.

[jms62]

Christie seems to owned by Atlantic City and those set to profit from the Xanadu debacle continuing.