Lava Man - Prep at Keeneland

#1 10-10-2006, 11:09 AM

I should be at Keeneland friday. I'll try to take some pics of him.

Seattleallstar · #2 10-10-2006, 11:42 AM

lets see how he will do no a real racetrack, with some real horses

SniperSB23 · #3 10-10-2006, 12:04 PM

Great move, he still won't beat Bernardini but I like his chances for second a lot more.

jpops757 · #4 10-10-2006, 02:45 PM

Oneil gave a lot of the credit for Lava Mans sharpness,because of the training on the Hollywood track. Looks like he wants to keep him on the polly for training.

#5 10-10-2006, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar

lets see how he will do no a real racetrack, with some real horses

Has he been running on fake racetracks against fake horses?

King Glorious · #6 10-10-2006, 03:03 PM

I think it's a bad move. What is training at Keeneland going to do to help him for Churchill? They are two entirely different tracks. Might as well have stayed home and kept him at Hollywood. At least he already knows he likes that Hollywood junk. This is worthless in my opinion. I hate all this talk about letting horses get acclimated to a surface. Either they will like it or they won't. If u don't like broccoli, is your mother making u eat more of it going to make u like it? No. If a horse doesn't like a certain track (say it's too hard and stings his feet or something), he's going to run worse on it the more he trains on it because he will have had time to develop a memory of how it hurts. And this is even worse because he's not training on the track he's running on. Now watch the weather cause O'Neill to lose some days of training. Just watch. While it's beautiful here in Southern Cal.

alysheba4 · #7 10-10-2006, 03:10 PM

well he knows more about the horse than all of us combined......... he prob. dosent ship that well so the extra time between shipping and the race will do him good.

Scav · #8 10-10-2006, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alysheba4

he prob. dosent ship that well so the extra time between shipping and the race will do him good.

Exactly, he has about 3 weeks to get acclimated to a new surrounding, I am sure they will take him over the Churchill surface too, it is only about a 45 minutes ride I have heard

The Bid · #9 10-10-2006, 03:16 PM

I dont think training over Keeneland will help him one bit at CHD. Its nice to ship in early, I agree with that 100%. Shipping in a week early, something like that and just galloping/jogging over the surface after a final work is a good idea. Shipping into Keeneland to prep a horse to run at CHD, makes no sense

#10 10-10-2006, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

Exactly, he has about 3 weeks to get acclimated to a new surrounding, I am sure they will take him over the Churchill surface too, it is only about a 45 minutes ride I have heard

About an hour and a half.

#11 10-10-2006, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

Exactly, he has about 3 weeks to get acclimated to a new surrounding, I am sure they will take him over the Churchill surface too, it is only about a 45 minutes ride I have heard

If you drive like Wayne Lukas.

Gander · #12 10-10-2006, 03:14 PM

I think it can only be regarded as a positive move. None of his previous 3 trips resulted in success, so now its his last chance to prove the naysayers wrong. First thing to do is change what didnt work before. I dont care if hes running on broken glass the next 4 weeks, it beats shipping in 2-3 days before the race as was the case with his ill fated trips to Florida, NY and Japan, all which resulted in his 3 worst races of his life.

Lava Man is going to be a serious threat on BC Day.

Pointg5 · #13 10-10-2006, 03:14 PM

I was looking at Lava Man's Sheets last night and it looks like he's been off form every time before he shipped...It's not like he was peaked out and then just failed...Also, I saw O'neil's comments about he's not as fast, but Lava Man has run negative 3's before and I don't believe Bernardini has hit that yet...I don't know what his Sheet # for the Goodwood is, but it's probably at least a zero and he should go forward, not tail off...

King Glorious · #14 10-10-2006, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alysheba4

well he knows more about the horse than all of us combined......... he prob. dosent ship that well so the extra time between shipping and the race will do him good.

He knew more about the horse than all of us last year too. Look where that got him when he shipped. He's still learning what will work and what won't. He doesn't know if this will be a good move for Lava Man any more than we do because he's never tried it.

Antitrust32 · #15 10-10-2006, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I think it's a bad move. What is training at Keeneland going to do to help him for Churchill? They are two entirely different tracks. Might as well have stayed home and kept him at Hollywood. At least he already knows he likes that Hollywood junk. This is worthless in my opinion. I hate all this talk about letting horses get acclimated to a surface. Either they will like it or they won't. If u don't like broccoli, is your mother making u eat more of it going to make u like it? No. If a horse doesn't like a certain track (say it's too hard and stings his feet or something), he's going to run worse on it the more he trains on it because he will have had time to develop a memory of how it hurts. And this is even worse because he's not training on the track he's running on. Now watch the weather cause O'Neill to lose some days of training. Just watch. While it's beautiful here in Southern Cal.

It is a great move actually. Horses seem to thrive when training on the poly and then running over the dirt. Example: Lava Man has already been doing this. Also, now he wont have to travel the week of the race and will get used to the climate and surroundings. I don't understand how you could think this is a negative.

King Glorious · #16 10-10-2006, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

It is a great move actually. Horses seem to thrive when training on the poly and then running over the dirt. Example: Lava Man has already been doing this. Also, now he wont have to travel the week of the race and will get used to the climate and surroundings. I don't understand how you could think this is a negative.

I say this because I don't think it was the traveling during the week of the race that was getting him beat last year. As has been noted many times, he was coming off of an extremely tough race last year when he went to NY so I don't know that the traveling was to be blamed.

U say that Lava Man has been thriving with the training on the Poly then running on dirt but I say that last year when he was training on the dirt, he was running better than he is this year. Last year, Lava Man went 116-120-112 for the California/Gold Cup/Pacific Classic triple. He went 109 this year in the Gold Cup and Pacific Classic. Where is the evidence that he's thriving more this year while training on Poly (which he's only been doing for a short time anyway) than he was last year on dirt.

My concern is that even though they say that no matter the weather conditions, the track remains fast, I have some concerns that he's going to miss some training time out there because of the weather. I'm just not sold on the whole acclimating angle. One of the most successful trainers in the history of the game, Wayne Lukas, was known as "D. Wayne Off the Plane"...in part because he was well known for shipping a horse in late and taking the money. European trainers struggled for years trying to find the right time to ship in for the BC. Some said it was better to ship in early and acclimate. Some said it was better to ship in right on top of the race. There still is no set answer. Personally, I'd rather keep a horse at home in his normal environment for as long as I can before shipping out. Will this work for Lava Man? None of us know one way or the other. Neither does he trainer.

#17 10-10-2006, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I think it's a bad move. What is training at Keeneland going to do to help him for Churchill? They are two entirely different tracks. Might as well have stayed home and kept him at Hollywood. At least he already knows he likes that Hollywood junk. This is worthless in my opinion. I hate all this talk about letting horses get acclimated to a surface. Either they will like it or they won't. If u don't like broccoli, is your mother making u eat more of it going to make u like it? No. If a horse doesn't like a certain track (say it's too hard and stings his feet or something), he's going to run worse on it the more he trains on it because he will have had time to develop a memory of how it hurts. And this is even worse because he's not training on the track he's running on. Now watch the weather cause O'Neill to lose some days of training. Just watch. While it's beautiful here in Southern Cal.

King,

As a sort-of student of the sport ... you're aware that in decades past ... the trainers of the top horses would always try to get in a race over the track before the big G1 event ... in order to familiarize his creature-of-habit with the racing surface... and to see how the horse reacts ... and to make strategic adjustments to equipment and racing tactics.

The only mistake O'Neill is making ... is not giving Lava Man a race over the Churchill track before the BC Classic. Or will he? Such a race would greatly improve Lava Man's chances of getting the place money.

Oh, for the days when trainers understood the value of prep races!