8/29 (SAR): Personal Ensign S. (G1)

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The one thing that nobody is bringing up is the track itself at Saratoga. There are plenty of horses that don't like that track. RA may not like that track. There may be a big difference between RA at Saratoga vs RA at Churchill or Belmont.

The same thing can be said for Life at Ten. She may not like Saratoga. She's never won there. She's 0 for 3 at Saratoga.

its also funny to me that the worst race by far in Rachels career beyer wise was equal to Zenyattas last "spine tingling" win

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by kgar311

its also funny to me that the worst race by far in Rachels career beyer wise was equal to Zenyattas last "spine tingling" win

The way that track (Saratoga) was playing (tiring) on Sunday, and the way that race set up, I think Zenyatta would have won that race by about 8-10 lengths. I'm not saying that makes her a better horse. I don't think Rachel likes Saratoga.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The way that track (Saratoga) was playing (tiring) on Sunday, and the way that race set up, I think Zenyatta would have won that race by about 8-10 lengths. I'm not saying that makes her a better horse. I don't think Rachel likes Saratoga.

Huh? Speed was good on Sunday. And Rachel doesn't like Saratoga? What on earth gives you that idea? Her Woodward last year -- I know you people can't understand this -- was very good, and she was beaten by pace/distance on Sunday, not the surface.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Huh? Speed was good on Sunday. And Rachel doesn't like Saratoga? What on earth gives you that idea? Her Woodward last year -- I know you people can't understand this -- was very good, and she was beaten by pace/distance on Sunday, not the surface.

Every time I have watched one of those 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 mile races at Saratoga, the track looks very tiring. It almost reminds me of Del Mar in the sense that it doesn't seem to matter how slow they go, the come-from-behinders still seem to have the edge. Blind Luck came from well out of it, even though the pace was slow. Blame was able to run Quality Road down, even though the pace was just moderate. It's the same way at Del Mar. They can go :49 or slower and a horse like Richard's Kid can still win coming from way out of it.

With regard to RA's race at Saratoga last year, I thought she ran ok but I didn't think it was anywhere near one of her best performances. I know that she was taking on older males that day and I know that she set a pretty fast pace. Despite that, I would have still expected her to win a little easier if she would have run anything close to her best. Do I know for sure that it was because of the surface? No, I don't know that for sure. I'm simply saying that could be one possibility.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Every time I have watched one of those 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 mile races at Saratoga, the track looks very tiring. It almost reminds me of Del Mar in the sense that it doesn't seem to matter how slow they go, the come-from-behinders still seem to have the edge. Blind Luck came from well out of it, even though the pace was slow. Blame was able to run Quality Road down, even though the pace was just moderate. It's the same way at Del Mar. They can go :49 or slower and a horse like Richard's Kid can still win coming from way out of it.

With regard to RA's race at Saratoga last year, I thought she ran ok but I didn't think it was anywhere near one of her best performances. I know that she was taking on older males that day and I know that she set a pretty fast pace. Despite that, I would have still expected her to win a little easier if she would have run anything close to her best. Do I know for sure that it was because of the surface? No, I don't know that for sure. I'm simply saying that could be one possibility.

You named two horses that have proven they can overcome slow paces in the past at other tracks as well. That's hardly enough of a sample to compare Saratoga to a synthetic track. What about Glenwood Canyon running way better than he had any right to against Convocation on the lead? What about A Little Warm and Miner's Reserve going 1-2 around the track in the Jim Dandy? What about Winslow Homer wiring the field to win by a pole in the Curlin? What about Trickmeister doing the same in the Pleasant Colony? If anything, two-turn races at Saratoga this meet have been more kind to speed than closers. And this weekend's track was indisputably speed-favoring.

And as for the Woodward, horses just don't go :22 and :46 and 'win easy' at Saratoga. It doesn't happen. That she won at all is unbelievable and certainly doesn't support any antipathy for the surface.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

You named two horses that have proven they can overcome slow paces in the past at other tracks as well. That's hardly enough of a sample to compare Saratoga to a synthetic track. What about Glenwood Canyon running way better than he had any right to against Convocation on the lead? What about A Little Warm and Miner's Reserve going 1-2 around the track in the Jim Dandy? What about Winslow Homer wiring the field to win by a pole in the Curlin? What about Trickmeister doing the same in the Pleasant Colony? If anything, two-turn races at Saratoga this meet have been more kind to speed than closers. And this weekend's track was indisputably speed-favoring.

And as for the Woodward, horses just don't go :22 and :46 and 'win easy' at Saratoga. It doesn't happen. That she won at all is unbelievable and certainly doesn't support any antipathy for the surface.

You obviously saw the Ky Oaks last year. Did it look like RA was getting tired after 1 1/8 miles? They could have run 1 1/4 miles that day and she would have won by an even bigger margin. And it's not like they went slower that day. They went :47 2/5 in the Oaks and she was sitting a length off the lead. RA may not be able to get 1 1/4 miles at Saratoga, but that distance has not looked like a problem for her at other tracks.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

You obviously saw the Ky Oaks last year. Did it look like RA was getting tired after 1 1/8 miles? They could have run 1 1/4 miles that day and she would have won by an even bigger margin. And it's not like they went slower that day. They went :47 2/5 in the Oaks and she was sitting a length off the lead. RA may not be able to get 1 1/4 miles at Saratoga, but that distance has not looked like a problem for her at other tracks.

Quality Road looked like he could've run 2 miles in the Donn, does that mean he can do it? Or does he hate Saratoga too? Rachel beat a field of crows in the Oaks while being able to relax early. She didn't run her eyeballs out against her primary opponent early and then hit a wall exactly at the 1/8 pole. As I said before, whether it's because of stamina or her keenness early, she'll never get 10 furlongs in a race like the Classic. Trust me, if she hated Saratoga in the Woodward, she would've packed it in at the top of the stretch. She had every right to.

[Metal Man]

Originally Posted by kgar311

its also funny to me that the worst race by far in Rachels career beyer wise was equal to Zenyattas last "spine tingling" win

Just goes to show up the quaility of beyers!