Oracle thanks for mushing Circular Quay

#1 10-09-2006, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

In no way am I trying to start a fight here, but. Mike, are you saying that the horse that beat CQ, on paper, had no chance? I beg to differ in my humble opinion. Don't throw up the poly stuff, lets just look at it on paper leading up to the race.

7/4/06 at Hollywood, 8/13/06 at Del Mar and 9/6/06 at Del Mar.

And these are 2 year olds.

I respect your knowledge of the game Mike but this was a legit horse that won.

Curt you'll have to pardon me for not considering your opinion as good as mine on race watching and analyzing.
I saw all of Great hunter's races. Hes a one paced animal with some speed, basically a polytrack angle thats becoming obvious. In his last he had yet another no excuse suck up to horses who came back and got roasted yesterday at SA.
He had shown neither the talent nor the desire that CQ had, and if you wanna bet a grand on whether or not CQ finishes ahead of him in the Cup, please feel free to do so now. The BC will be on dirt, not tires. Anything you wanna bet just let me know. Certainly you will wanna do that if you think Hunter is a better horse right?

2MinsToPost · #2 10-09-2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

Curt you'll have to pardon me for not considering your opinion as good as mine on race watching and analyzing.
I saw all of Great hunter's races. Hes a one paced animal with some speed, basically a polytrack angle thats becoming obvious. In his last he had yet another no excuse suck up to horses who came back and got roasted yesterday at SA.
He had shown neither the talent nor the desire that CQ had, and if you wanna bet a grand on whether or not CQ finishes ahead of him in the Cup, please feel free to do so now. The BC will be on dirt, not tires. Anything you wanna bet just let me know. Certainly you will wanna do that if you think Hunter is a better horse right?

No Mike, we already have a bet out on Lava and I love that one. Look, don't have to resort to reminding me about your race watching skills, ok. I know all to well and you remind everyone every chance you get, note what I said about RESPECTING you. God why do you have to resort to those comments. I made a valid comment and you resort to that. Anyway, anyhow some things never change.

#3 10-09-2006, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

No Mike, we already have a bet out on Lava and I love that one. Look, don't have to resort to reminding me about your race watching skills, ok. I know all to well and you remind everyone every chance you get, note what I said about RESPECTING you. God why do you have to resort to those comments. I made a valid comment and you resort to that. Anyway, anyhow some things never change.

Yeah they don't change. Guys play devils Advocate AFTER the race and then don't wanna back up their statements. Ho hum, just another day.
Curt why not bet 100 bucks then? You obviously feel you have a better opinion than mine, lets test it out.

#4 10-09-2006, 11:46 AM

Make no mistake about it Curt, write it down and save the post, CQ will hammer Great Hunter in the BC Juvy, then we can revisit this.

The Bid · #5 10-09-2006, 12:05 PM

Horse greeley got bumped around like a ping pong ball at the break. Lost about 8 lengths. Rushed up, and had nothing left. Hes a nice horse, yesterday was a complete throwout. He didnt bounce, he didnt break.

2MinsToPost · #6 10-09-2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

Yeah they don't change. Guys play devils Advocate AFTER the race and then don't wanna back up their statements. Ho hum, just another day.
Curt why not bet 100 bucks then? You obviously feel you have a better opinion than mine, lets test it out.

No I don't. I will just stand their at Churchill and smile as Lava does the magic. Then I will find you and collect.

#7 10-09-2006, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

No I don't. I will just stand their at Churchill and smile as Lava does the magic. Then I will find you and collect.

Typical coward.

2MinsToPost · #8 10-09-2006, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

Typical coward.

Coward? No some of us actually have to work for a living. I am not made of money Mike. I said I respect you and your knowledge then you run amuck like this. Once again, you are the same as always.

#9 10-09-2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

Coward? No some of us actually have to work for a living. I am not made of money Mike. I said I respect you and your knowledge then you run amuck like this. Once again, you are the same as always.

Look, you made the statement not me, I said lets bet on it. You said no. So obviously you don't believe your own bull****, which was all I was trying to prove and now I have.
Nothing personal.

Kasept · #10 10-09-2006, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

Typical coward.

Mike..

I don't get this. It's totally unnecessary and belligerent. There was nothing going on in the conversation above that warranted a nonsensical 'throw down' and insult towards Curt...

Geezuztapdancingchrist... It keeps people from posting for fear of being demeaned and berated. I want it to stop.

#11 10-09-2006, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Mike..

I don't get this. It's totally unnecessary and belligerent. There was nothing going on in the conversation above that warranted a nonsensical 'throw down' and insult towards Curt...

Geezuztapdancingchrist... It keeps people from posting for fear of being demeaned and berated. I'd want it to stop.

Ok, but if hes gonna sling arrows and say "typical NYers" which I quite frankly am tired of hearing, then he ought to expect it back in spades.
What is it with that **** anyway? WHy does NY always come into play in a debate?

Cajungator26 · #12 10-09-2006, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Mike..

I don't get this. It's totally unnecessary and belligerent. There was nothing going on in the conversation above that warranted a nonsensical 'throw down' and insult towards Curt...

Geezuztapdancingchrist... It keeps people from posting for fear of being demeaned and berated. I'd want it to stop.

Gotta say it, Steve... I love the Geezuztapdancingchrist comment... too funny. I'm a Geezuzmarymotherofchristo kind of gal myself, but I'll have to switch her up and try yours too.

blackthroatedwind · #13 10-09-2006, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

Hey Steve,

Here's a disclaimer. Anyone who has the "sand" to demean and berate me, bring it on. Just put on your helmet and flak jacket because "incoming" is on the way

Who the hell are you kidding? You are the poster girl for " internet coward "....taking cheap shots whenever possible just to get some pathetic little thrill. All you ever do is " demean and berate " posters.....and the only sand you have was kicked on you at the beach.

#14 10-09-2006, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

Yeah they don't change. Guys play devils Advocate AFTER the race and then don't wanna back up their statements. Ho hum, just another day.
Curt why not bet 100 bucks then? You obviously feel you have a better opinion than mine, lets test it out.

Hey, I stated before the race I was betting against Quay and that I was betting Street Sense. I laid $400 to win on him and with a little racing luck he would have cross the wire first. But I am not playing devils advocate here.

SniperSB23 · #15 10-09-2006, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

Curt you'll have to pardon me for not considering your opinion as good as mine on race watching and analyzing.
I saw all of Great hunter's races. Hes a one paced animal with some speed, basically a polytrack angle thats becoming obvious. In his last he had yet another no excuse suck up to horses who came back and got roasted yesterday at SA.
He had shown neither the talent nor the desire that CQ had, and if you wanna bet a grand on whether or not CQ finishes ahead of him in the Cup, please feel free to do so now. The BC will be on dirt, not tires. Anything you wanna bet just let me know. Certainly you will wanna do that if you think Hunter is a better horse right?

So there is an obvious polytrack angle that you didn't bet but are pointing out after the race? And you call me a redboarder? Give me a break. I said before the race Great Hunter was the better horse and would beat him and that is exactly what happened.

sumitas · #16 10-09-2006, 11:02 PM

The only polytrack angle i see is when a surface is first raced over, off the pace runners have the edge until the surface tightens up. then the bias goes pooof.

SentToStud · #17 10-09-2006, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

So there is an obvious polytrack angle that you didn't bet but are pointing out after the race? And you call me a redboarder? Give me a break. I said before the race Great Hunter was the better horse and would beat him and that is exactly what happened.

I have a question for you...

Did/are/will you play serious money on Keeneland Polytrack races where none of the horses have any form over the surface?

I suppose it's fine to take whatever you can afford to bet and gamble on Keeneland opening week, but to me it's really pure gambling since it's impossible IMO to handicap a race where all or nearly all of the contestants have run on the type of surface Keeneland now has.

There's nothing wrong I guess with purely gambling on Polytrack races this early in the meet but I personally wouldn't confuse doing so with solid handicapping and serious wagering.

good luck.

SniperSB23 · #18 10-09-2006, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I have a question for you...

Did/are/will you play serious money on Keeneland Polytrack races where none of the horses have any form over the surface?

I suppose it's fine to take whatever you can afford to bet and gamble on Keeneland opening week, but to me it's really pure gambling since it's impossible IMO to handicap a race where all or nearly all of the contestants have run on the type of surface Keeneland now has.

There's nothing wrong I guess with purely gambling on Polytrack races this early in the meet but I personally wouldn't confuse doing so with solid handicapping and serious wagering.

good luck.

I've been capping it as if it is a surface that plays to dirt and turf horses and that has been working quite well. I thought Great Hunter was the best horse in the race so I played him. I thought Asi Siempre was the best horse in the race so I played her. Didn't matter that one was a dirt horse and one a turf horse because it seems to play equally to horses from both surfaces. I actually like it, I got killed at Saratoga this year playing all the NY breds and claimers going to the turf for their first time and having to guess based on their pedigree whether or not they will move up. With polytrack you can assume dirt and turf horses will take to it. The real nightmare, in my opinion, is figuring out what horses that have only run on poly like the dirt and which like the turf.

SentToStud · #19 10-09-2006, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I've been capping it as if it is a surface that plays to dirt and turf horses and that has been working quite well. I thought Great Hunter was the best horse in the race so I played him. I thought Asi Siempre was the best horse in the race so I played her. Didn't matter that one was a dirt horse and one a turf horse because it seems to play equally to horses from both surfaces. I actually like it, I got killed at Saratoga this year playing all the NY breds and claimers going to the turf for their first time and having to guess based on their pedigree whether or not they will move up. With polytrack you can assume dirt and turf horses will take to it. The real nightmare, in my opinion, is figuring out what horses that have only run on poly like the dirt and which like the turf.

thanks...

It's not for me, at least for now. But good luck....

GenuineRisk · #20 10-10-2006, 10:25 AM

Regarding the looking to the dam for stamina thing, I may be completely wrong here (nothing new for me, ha ha ha...sigh...) but I believe the gene for the large heart is carried on the X chromosome so it tends to show up through the dam. Secretariat had a heart what, almost three times the size of an average horse heart, which is why he could run so long so fast. But that characteristic, being on the X chromosome was something he could only pass on to his daughters, who could then pass it on to their sons and daughters both. He is generally regarded as having been a better broodmare sire, right?

Anyway, my guess is that is why people look to the dam's side for stamina. Not that every dam has that particular gene, of course.