Obama's support for Ground Zero Mosque

[Antitrust32]

I'm not sure how anyone doesnt recognize this Ground Zero mosque building area as being very insensitive and disrespectful.

Its not illegal.. they are welcome to build it. But anyone in there right mind knows its insensitive and not neccessary.

[clyde]

I see a drone missile in its future.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I'm not sure how anyone doesnt recognize this Ground Zero mosque building area as being very insensitive and disrespectful.

Its not illegal.. they are welcome to build it. But anyone in there right mind knows its insensitive and not neccessary.

I can't believe you just said all muslims are terrorists!

Oh sorry, forgot to turn my Riot post decoder off.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Honu

Oh for crying out loud! The point Im making is that even if a person is a member of NMABLA and has never touched a child do you still think you would want their meeting hall in your neighborhood? Prolly not! Just like the people who had relatives and loved one's die at the hand of terrorist Muslims dont want a Mosque so close to what they consider a killing field.
I just dont get how anyone who has a bit of feeling in their person for the people killed at the trade center can see this as not offensive and disrespectfull to the people who lost their lives that day and the hundreds of rescue people who so bravely tried to save them and who are still dying today from all the **** they breathed in during rescue operations.

Girl, they don't care who did it. Long as 1% or so of the fatalities were Moslems, they're gunna be o.k. with what happened. They really seem tore up at all about 9/11?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Honu

So hypothetically lets say there is a neighborhood where children have been assulted sexualy by some sick freaks years ago. In this neighborhood NAMBLA wanted to build a building where people of like minds could meet and discuss their common intrests, does anyone think that it would be ok?
Its very akin to the subject at hand, the people who are offended by the thought of a Mosque being built in close proximity to where practishoners of a certain religion commited crimes against thousands of people are no diffirent than anyone else who have been a victim of a crime.
I just dont get why the Muslims feel a need to build a place so close to where their brothers killed Americans for no other reason than hatred.

this has got to be the worst analogy ever in the history of analogies.

again, muslims died that day in the towers. or are you assuming only christians died? those murderers were killing americans, they didn't stop to make sure what religion everyone belonged to.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Danzig

this has got to be the worst analogy ever in the history of analogies.

again, muslims died that day in the towers. or are you assuming only christians died? those murderers were killing americans, they didn't stop to make sure what religion everyone belonged to.

You are searching for misspells in Einstein's e=mcboom!!




I think most do see her logic.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

this has got to be the worst analogy ever in the history of analogies.

again, muslims died that day in the towers. or are you assuming only christians died? those murderers were killing americans, they didn't stop to make sure what religion everyone belonged to.

funny thing is there are Muslim sites who say the Jews did it to bash them and the evidence was some Jewish CEO's who weren't in the towers. Of course they neglected to say they weren't even in the country as well.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Because of drug dealers, not Christians.

so...you can tell me you know for sure that the dope dealers are all people who don't go to church? lol
catholic priests who were found to have molested kids went to church every day. im pretty sure they felt they were christians. being christian doesn't keep you from breaking laws, just like being islamic, jewish, hindu doesn't keep everyone on the right path.

but at least you are showing you can keep criminal behavior separate from religion, and don't think one has to do with the other. that's good.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Danzig

so...you can tell me you know for sure that the dope dealers are all people who don't go to church? lol
catholic priests who were found to have molested kids went to church every day. im pretty sure they felt they were christians. being christian doesn't keep you from breaking laws, just like being islamic, jewish, hindu doesn't keep everyone on the right path.

but at least you are showing you can keep criminal behavior separate from religion, and don't think one has to do with the other. that's good.

so you are saying that the Terrorists did NOT kill in the name of Allah?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

so you are saying that the Terrorists did NOT kill in the name of Allah?

i think they can try to justify it however they wish. i think they are using religion as a way to garner support from other believers in that faith. i don't care why they did it honestly. anyone engaging in criminal behavior should be treated accordingly. anyone who aids them should be as well. however, having been raised as catholic, i'd hate for someone to lump me in with child molesting priests or the church who allowed it.
what we need to be is very careful that we don't change our beliefs, our freedoms, because of the actions of a few rotten to the core people.


john adams was a lawyer who was asked to handle a very tricky case-this was pre-declaration of independance. he was asked to be council for the accused who was charged with instigating the boston massacre. now, just think about how unpopular that british soldier was, and how much grief adams knew he'd get if he took the case. hell, his own cousin samuel was the leader of the sons of liberty. but he knew that the rule of law had to prevail, and he took that case. and he won, the man was found not guilty. i'd rather we all follow his lead in this case. don't you think that's what should happen? are our laws, the very foundation of this country, to be ignored in this case, because the group concerned is unpopular, a minority group? i hope not. and how much does that piece of paper really mean if we aren't able to follow it when it is tough to follow? the right way isn't always the easy way. would it be easy for me to say, yes, ban them. don't build it! absolutely. but it would be wrong. nazis, kkk marches, i detest them. but they are allowed for a reason. what do we say when they occur? ignore it, don't give them the benefit of seeing you upset. it's what they live for. we have to be gender neutral, color blind, we must be the same when it comes to religion. we must be able to differentiate between a criminal, and a person. sharing this religion is not criminal. your actions make you so. unless someone breaks a law, they should be left in peace. it's what i'd want, it's what you'd want.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think they can try to justify it however they wish. i think they are using religion as a way to garner support from other believers in that faith. i don't care why they did it honestly. anyone engaging in criminal behavior should be treated accordingly. anyone who aids them should be as well. however, having been raised as catholic, i'd hate for someone to lump me in with child molesting priests or the church who allowed it.
what we need to be is very careful that we don't change our beliefs, our freedoms, because of the actions of a few rotten to the core people.


john adams was a lawyer who was asked to handle a very tricky case-this was pre-declaration of independance. he was asked to be council for the accused who was charged with instigating the boston massacre. now, just think about how unpopular that british soldier was, and how much grief adams knew he'd get if he took the case. hell, his own cousin samuel was the leader of the sons of liberty. but he knew that the rule of law had to prevail, and he took that case. and he won, the man was found not guilty. i'd rather we all follow his lead in this case. don't you think that's what should happen? are our laws, the very foundation of this country, to be ignored in this case, because the group concerned is unpopular, a minority group? i hope not. and how much does that piece of paper really mean if we aren't able to follow it when it is tough to follow? the right way isn't always the easy way. would it be easy for me to say, yes, ban them. don't build it! absolutely. but it would be wrong. nazis, kkk marches, i detest them. but they are allowed for a reason. what do we say when they occur? ignore it, don't give them the benefit of seeing you upset. it's what they live for. we have to be gender neutral, color blind, we must be the same when it comes to religion. we must be able to differentiate between a criminal, and a person. sharing this religion is not criminal. your actions make you so. unless someone breaks a law, they should be left in peace. it's what i'd want, it's what you'd want.

no I dont believe Americans should stop this mosque from being built. Yes, it is unconstitutional.

I would hope to believe that the Iman or whatever he's called, would have enough decency and respect to realize its a sensitive subject, and not try to build there.

Is that too much to ask? A little human decency from our Muslim brother?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

so...you can tell me you know for sure that the dope dealers are all people who don't go to church? lol
catholic priests who were found to have molested kids went to church every day. im pretty sure they felt they were christians. being christian doesn't keep you from breaking laws, just like being islamic, jewish, hindu doesn't keep everyone on the right path.

but at least you are showing you can keep criminal behavior separate from religion, and don't think one has to do with the other. that's good.

What religion the dealers are is not a factor in the conversation because they aren't killing or comitting crimes for religous reasons. They aren't going to target an American because of their religion. They may target you as a potential ransom payday and they may kill you anyway. But they aren't going to kill you because of your religous affiliation. In a muslim country they would. I have a hard time believing that you dont understand the difference.

Why you and others continue to insist that there is no link between the muslim religion and terrorism is baffling. Saying that doesn't mean that all muslims are terrorists but a certain element of the religion is not only killing in the name of their god but glorifyfing it and many muslim clerics that are somehow considered "mainstream" often say the terrorism is justified.

[dellinger63]

Let us not forget

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-9JpRytCx0

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What religion the dealers are is not a factor in the conversation because they aren't killing or comitting crimes for religous reasons. They aren't going to target an American because of their religion. They may target you as a potential ransom payday and they may kill you anyway. But they aren't going to kill you because of your religous affiliation. In a muslim country they would. I have a hard time believing that you dont understand the difference.

Why you and others continue to insist that there is no link between the muslim religion and terrorism is baffling. Saying that doesn't mean that all muslims are terrorists but a certain element of the religion is not only killing in the name of their god but glorifyfing it and many muslim clerics that are somehow considered "mainstream" often say the terrorism is justified.

when criminals commit crimes, some attempt to justify it. others don't bother. now, you and i, as well as most on here, can't imagine doing what these guys are-mass killings, suicide bombings, etc. yet bin laden has found a few others who think as he does, much like hitler surrounded himself with like-minded cronies, as did stalin...we don't get it, it makes no sense. but then, i can't imagine having ever been a kamikaze pilot either.
now, bin laden has chosen to justify his actions, much like hitler did before. hitler was preaching a strong germany, a return to greatness. bin laden wants power, and all that goes with it-he has chosen to justify his criminal acts by twisting some verses in the koran to suit his needs.
if a guy beats his wife, he can find a verse in the bible to justify it. does he beat his wife because the bible said so? no, but it's an excuse, and one that many may not be able to repudiate, because how many can really quote the bible chapter and verse? however, just like one can justify staying peaceful by saying 'turn the other cheek', someone else can say 'no, an eye for an eye'.
bin laden is a monster, a killer. we wonder what induces people to do horrible things-in this guys case, we think we have an answer-his religion. but their are billions of people who are of the same religion-yet the vast majority are peaceful people.
i'm saying we may never really know why he does what he does. it's obvious that we, and anyone who agrees with us (like the iraq army recruits killed overnite) are his targets. he doesn't care what religion we are-he just hates us. do you really think he would agree with that mosque in new york? no, he wouldn't. he doesn't want peace and harmony, he wants death and destruction. that's not religion.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

when criminals commit crimes, some attempt to justify it. others don't bother. now, you and i, as well as most on here, can't imagine doing what these guys are-mass killings, suicide bombings, etc. yet bin laden has found a few others who think as he does, much like hitler surrounded himself with like-minded cronies, as did stalin...we don't get it, it makes no sense. but then, i can't imagine having ever been a kamikaze pilot either.
now, bin laden has chosen to justify his actions, much like hitler did before. hitler was preaching a strong germany, a return to greatness. bin laden wants power, and all that goes with it-he has chosen to justify his criminal acts by twisting some verses in the koran to suit his needs.
if a guy beats his wife, he can find a verse in the bible to justify it. does he beat his wife because the bible said so? no, but it's an excuse, and one that many may not be able to repudiate, because how many can really quote the bible chapter and verse? however, just like one can justify staying peaceful by saying 'turn the other cheek', someone else can say 'no, an eye for an eye'.
bin laden is a monster, a killer. we wonder what induces people to do horrible things-in this guys case, we think we have an answer-his religion. but their are billions of people who are of the same religion-yet the vast majority are peaceful people.
i'm saying we may never really know why he does what he does. it's obvious that we, and anyone who agrees with us (like the iraq army recruits killed overnite) are his targets. he doesn't care what religion we are-he just hates us. do you really think he would agree with that mosque in new york? no, he wouldn't. he doesn't want peace and harmony, he wants death and destruction. that's not religion.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. But when clerics, imans and other 'official' representatitives of the religion show support for these terror organizations it blurs the lines.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I wholeheartedly agree with this. But when clerics, imans and other 'official' representatitives of the religion show support for these terror organizations it blurs the lines.

and they are also haters first, last and always. it's a shame a few supposed religious leaders use that as the basis for doing evil. but we have to understand that most muslims do not agree with bin laden and his followers-it's not terrorists wanting to build a center in new york. and yes, they do try to blur the lines; we have to be smarter than to fall for it.

i was listening to a radio show on the way home tonite that was discussing the proposed center. a caller was put on the line, someone who lost a brother who worked in one of the towers on 9-11. he supports the new building, is not a muslim, but knows of this group and their work over the years in that area of the city. he made some great points; i wish everyone who is up in arms about this could have heard him.
i just don't want us to repay hate from some with hate to others-the people involved aren't wishing anyone harm at all, they have no ill-will, but are being given plenty in return. this country is the most diverse in population, culture, religion-we can't be divisive, we've got to find common ground against an enemy of everyone who lives in this country, including the muslim citizens. those terrorists didn't care who each person was, they just wanted to attack america, kill americans. if they only wanted to kill those of a separate religion, they'd have attacked houses of worship.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I wholeheartedly agree with this. But when clerics, imans and other 'official' representatitives of the religion show support for these terror organizations it blurs the lines.

Some people want to act like Bin-Laden is in no way representative of Muslims. But the truth of the matter is that he was probably the most popular figure in the entire Muslim world in the immediate years after 9/11. The most popular name given new-born Muslim babies in many Muslim countries post 9/11 was "Osama". As I linked in other threads, Bin Laden's approval rating throughout the Muslim world in the years after 9/11 was extremely high. It was around 50-60% in many Muslim countries.

He's not nearly as popular any more, probably because he's been killing too many Muslims lately and not enough Americans.

Anyway, to act like Bin-Laden was not an extremely popular figure in the Muslim world is a complete lie.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I wholeheartedly agree with this. But when clerics, imans and other 'official' representatitives of the religion show support for these terror organizations it blurs the lines.

The imam of the NY mosque you guys are against taught counterterrorism for the FBI. That's the "evil" you guys are worried about. Geeshus cripes.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I wholeheartedly agree with this. But when clerics, imans and other 'official' representatitives of the religion show support for these terror organizations it blurs the lines.

Zig, I just saw an IMAM from California get asked (on T.V.) if Hamas is a terror group. He refused to answer. He was from a mosque in Temecula, Ca. Hardly a center for terrorism, but their sympathy for terrorism is immense. They aren't like they say they are. Not the way we want to think they are. They're non-violent until bent enough to get violent.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

when criminals commit crimes, some attempt to justify it. others don't bother. now, you and i, as well as most on here, can't imagine doing what these guys are-mass killings, suicide bombings, etc. yet bin laden has found a few others who think as he does, much like hitler surrounded himself with like-minded cronies, as did stalin...we don't get it, it makes no sense. but then, i can't imagine having ever been a kamikaze pilot either.
now, bin laden has chosen to justify his actions, much like hitler did before. hitler was preaching a strong germany, a return to greatness. bin laden wants power, and all that goes with it-he has chosen to justify his criminal acts by twisting some verses in the koran to suit his needs.

That's just not true. They are there plain as can be. No twisting necessary. These are verses that other "tame" Moslems won't say are wrong. They'll say b.s. like this is not the Islam they know, but they won't say those verses are evil. If they refuse to do that, then you shouldn't be surprised when tame turns rabid.