8/7 (DMR): Clement L. Hirsch S. (G1)

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think they go for the record wins streak and then retire her. no classic, no trip, finish in california and send her to the broodmare barn. if they are unwilling to take on colts this year on poly, why would they want to on dirt? she loves it out west, loves the poly. she's won a classic, no need for another.

That's an interesting theory but it's totally wrong. They have one goal right now and that goal is to win the BC Classic this year. There is no chance they retire her unless she gets hurt. Every move they make with her is designed to be what they think is the best path to the Classic.

By the way, they think she's better on dirt.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

That's an interesting theory but it's totally wrong. They have one goal right now and that goal is to win the BC Classic this year. There is no chance they retire her unless she gets hurt. Every move they make with her is designed to be what they think is the best path to the Classic.

By the way, they think she's better on dirt.

My goal is to win a Nobel Peace prize this year for having uncommon sense. Ain't gonna happen though.

If they do retire her prior to the BC, they will say she's hurt.

By the way, they say they think she's better on dirt. There's a big difference between saying it and thinking it. Which they don't.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

My goal is to win a Nobel Peace prize this year for having uncommon sense. Ain't gonna happen though.

If they do retire her prior to the BC, they will say she's hurt.

By the way, they say they think she's better on dirt. There's a big difference between saying it and thinking it. Which they don't.

I should correct my earlier post. They actually have 3 goals right now. First, they want to win HOY. Second, they want to win the BC Classic again. Third, they want to reamin undefeated. Every move they make is designed to accomplish these 3 goals. If they win the BC Classic, they kill two birds with one stone. They win the race and they win HOY.

When you consider that those are their 3 goals right now, it wouldn't make much sense for them to look for a tough race right now. They don't need to. They will win HOY if they win the BC Classic. If they don't win the BC Classic, they won't win HOY. Running in a tough race right now doesn't accomplish anything for them and it could hurt one of their goals. If she loses, it kills their goal of staying undefeated.

They will definitely run in the BC Classic because they desperately want to win HOY.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I should correct my earlier post. They actually have 3 goals right now. First, they want to win HOY. Second, they want to win the BC Classic again. Third, they want to reamin undefeated.

It's about just trying to stay undefeated and having her cranked up to run one whole big race this year.

Coming to Saratoga and trying to beat Rachel Alexandra on dirt - the surface which most American horses are bred best for - at the Classic distance of 10fs - that would have been awesome.

They know she is more likely to finish ahead of RA in the Classic because horses like Quality Road and Rail Trip won't let her loaf ... so, it's basically a full of year of yawners leading into a half court heave at a dirt BC Classic in which she will have her best possible chance at placing in front of RA as some moral victory if she doesn't win the race outright.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

It's about just trying to stay undefeated and having her cranked up to run one whole big race this year.

Coming to Saratoga and trying to beat Rachel Alexandra on dirt - the surface which most American horses are bred best for - at the Classic distance of 10fs - that would have been awesome.

They know she is more likely to finish ahead of RA in the Classic because horses like Quality Road and Rail Trip won't let her loaf ... so, it's basically a full of year of yawners leading into a half court heave at a dirt BC Classic in which she will have her best possible chance at placing in front of RA as some moral victory if she doesn't win the race outright.

Perfectly stated Doug.

[Rileyoriley]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

It's about just trying to stay undefeated and having her cranked up to run one whole big race this year.

Coming to Saratoga and trying to beat Rachel Alexandra on dirt - the surface which most American horses are bred best for - at the Classic distance of 10fs - that would have been awesome.

They know she is more likely to finish ahead of RA in the Classic because horses like Quality Road and Rail Trip won't let her loaf ... so, it's basically a full of year of yawners leading into a half court heave at a dirt BC Classic in which she will have her best possible chance at placing in front of RA as some moral victory if she doesn't win the race outright.

After yesterday's races, personally I'm looking forward to the BCC and Blame v. Zenyatta. If both horses win their next races, we'll have the undefeated mare from the west going against the undefeated colt (in 2010) from the east. The media would hopefully eat this up and really promote the race. RA, at this point, is an afterthought.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Rileyoriley

After yesterday's races, personally I'm looking forward to the BCC and Blame v. Zenyatta. If both horses win their next races, we'll have the undefeated mare from the west going against the undefeated colt (in 2010) from the east. The media would hopefully eat this up and really promote the race. RA, at this point, is an afterthought.

How exactly is RA an afterthought?

Because she lost her first two off of a 9 month layoff for a guy who is a statistical deadbeat as a layoff trainer?

If St. Trinians simply broke cleanly in the Vanity - there's no possible way Zenyatta would still be undefeated.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

How exactly is RA an afterthought?

Because she lost her first two off of a 9 month layoff for a guy who is a statistical deadbeat as a layoff trainer?

If St. Trinians simply broke cleanly in the Vanity - there's no possible way Zenyatta would still be undefeated.

Further, after watching the Whitney yesterday, how exactly could Quality Road win any race in which Rachel was entered? If anything he is the afterthought.

[Rileyoriley]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

How exactly is RA an afterthought?

Because she lost her first two off of a 9 month layoff for a guy who is a statistical deadbeat as a layoff trainer?

If St. Trinians simply broke cleanly in the Vanity - there's no possible way Zenyatta would still be undefeated.

RA hasn't shown she's the same horse as last year. Blame is the top male in his handicap division at this time. I would be more excited to see a match up in the classic between Zenyatta and Blame than I would be to see Zenyatta and RA in the Distaff. I also think it would be better for the sport and get more publicity if it was the former. Again, it's just my personal opinion.

[Rileyoriley]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I should correct my earlier post. They actually have 3 goals right now. First, they want to win HOY. Second, they want to win the BC Classic again. Third, they want to reamin undefeated. Every move they make is designed to accomplish these 3 goals. If they win the BC Classic, they kill two birds with one stone. They win the race and they win HOY.

When you consider that those are their 3 goals right now, it wouldn't make much sense for them to look for a tough race right now. They don't need to. They will win HOY if they win the BC Classic. If they don't win the BC Classic, they won't win HOY. Running in a tough race right now doesn't accomplish anything for them and it could hurt one of their goals. If she loses, it kills their goal of staying undefeated.

They will definitely run in the BC Classic because they desperately want to win HOY.

I'd reverse the 3 goals. Remaining undefeated and winning the BCC again will be remembered before who won HOY in 2010.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

That's an interesting theory but it's totally wrong. They have one goal right now and that goal is to win the BC Classic this year. There is no chance they retire her unless she gets hurt. Every move they make with her is designed to be what they think is the best path to the Classic.

By the way, they think she's better on dirt.

they say they are going to the bc. but they also said they were going to travel with her this year, let her fans see her, and try new things. if they haven't done any of that, how can you be sure they will really point to the bc? you can't. they talk a big talk, but what has she done differently this year? then you see the comments from them about cali, about not shipping, about the win streak. i don't think i'm going out on a limb by suggesting they really don't intend to go to the bc. i think they want peppers prides record, and the money won record. i think the bc is further down on the list, especially with her having won one.
it remains to be seen; i hope she goes, don't get me wrong. but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if she doesn't go.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

they say they are going to the bc. but they also said they were going to travel with her this year, let her fans see her, and try new things. if they haven't done any of that, how can you be sure they will really point to the bc? you can't. they talk a big talk, but what has she done differently this year? then you see the comments from them about cali, about not shipping, about the win streak. i don't think i'm going out on a limb by suggesting they really don't intend to go to the bc. i think they want peppers prides record, and the money won record. i think the bc is further down on the list, especially with her having won one.
it remains to be seen; i hope she goes, don't get me wrong. but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if she doesn't go.

They were planning on travelling this year but the trip to Oaklawn knocked her out a little bit. They know they're going to ship again for the BC and possibly once right before it. That is why they have not shipped her since the Oaklawn race. They felt that would simply be too many trips for the horse.

Anyway, they were very disappointed that they didn't win HOY last year. That is one of the main reasons they brought her back this year, to win HOY. They know they have to win the BC Classic to win HOY. Therefore, there is no doubt that they will run there assuming nothing goes wrong between now and then.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

They were planning on travelling this year but the trip to Oaklawn knocked her out a little bit. They know they're going to ship again for the BC and possibly once right before it. That is why they have not shipped her since the Oaklawn race. They felt that would simply be too many trips for the horse.

Anyway, they were very disappointed that they didn't win HOY last year. That is one of the main reasons they brought her back this year, to win HOY. They know they have to win the BC Classic to win HOY. Therefore, there is no doubt that they will run there assuming nothing goes wrong between now and then.

after reading shirreffs comments about shipping to ny, and not wanting to leave his string behind, i find their talk of wanting to travel with her just that-talk. they spoke the other day of wanting to support cali racing, and they're doing just that. fine with me. cali needs all the support it can get. we'll see about the bc when it happens. i hope she shows, but i won't be surprised if she doesn't. because right now, all they're doing about that is talking, just like the rest of it.

and be careful about saying 'there's no doubt in my mind'. i used that phrase and got clobbered for it by someone who took umbrage. hey, i hope you're right rupert. i hope she shows. but i'll believe it only when i see it. that's no slur on you at all.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Danzig

after reading shirreffs comments about shipping to ny, and not wanting to leave his string behind, i find their talk of wanting to travel with her just that-talk.

What string? He has 59 starts for the entire year.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

What string? He has 59 starts for the entire year.

Let me ask you some serious questions because all this Z bashing is beneath you:

what do you think her chances are of winning this year's Classic?


I mean, seriously, at some level you must clearly realize that this a a very nice horse. We're at the point where there are very few good 10F horses -- actually, we were always at this point. So much so, that some are even starting to believe that Musket Man is a race horse. I know you can't like RA in the Classic, so who does Z really have to beat in it? Anyone other than Blame?

It seems to me that her connections maybe understand some of this as well. They want to go into the biggest race of the year undefeated. You, and others, want her to campaign like Forego.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Let me ask you some serious questions because all this Z bashing is beneath you:

what do you think her chances are of winning this year's Classic?

What does any of this have to do with calling bullcrap on the Z camp comments? You telling me a guy with hardly any horses can't afford to travel with the greatest horse to ever step foot on the planet for a month?

We don't want her to campaign like Forego. Since when did 5 nothing races and the BC Classic become a good schedule?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

What string? He has 59 starts for the entire year.

good question, but shirreffs is the one you need to ask. he's the one who doesn't want to leave his other horses behind. i have no idea how many that might be.

[Thunder Gulch]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

They were planning on travelling this year but the trip to Oaklawn knocked her out a little bit. They know they're going to ship again for the BC and possibly once right before it. That is why they have not shipped her since the Oaklawn race. They felt that would simply be too many trips for the horse.

Anyway, they were very disappointed that they didn't win HOY last year. That is one of the main reasons they brought her back this year, to win HOY. They know they have to win the BC Classic to win HOY. Therefore, there is no doubt that they will run there assuming nothing goes wrong between now and then.

They were disappointed they didn't win HOY, bring her back specifically to win HOY, and take the same route even though the competition is weaker. Here's an idea, you know some horses have won the award based on a year's worth of great racing. Wonder if anyone ever thought of that?

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

They were planning on travelling this year but the trip to Oaklawn knocked her out a little bit. They know they're going to ship again for the BC and possibly once right before it. That is why they have not shipped her since the Oaklawn race. They felt that would simply be too many trips for the horse.

Anyway, they were very disappointed that they didn't win HOY last year. That is one of the main reasons they brought her back this year, to win HOY. They know they have to win the BC Classic to win HOY. Therefore, there is no doubt that they will run there assuming nothing goes wrong between now and then.

I would agree with this from the change in her appearance.

If she manages to win the Classic this year she is HOY

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

That's an interesting theory but it's totally wrong. They have one goal right now and that goal is to win the BC Classic this year. There is no chance they retire her unless she gets hurt. Every move they make with her is designed to be what they think is the best path to the Classic.

By the way, they think she's better on dirt.

Surface makes her look more ordinary, take the Apple Blossom for example she just draws off in that race, on synthetics the cynics would say she is only life and death to win, but margins on synth are always invariably less than dirt. She may be sitting on her best race career wise for the BC, she looks better this year and she will drive the naysayers crazy if she wins the Classic with authority this year. That is if she wins.