7/10 (HOL): Hollywood Gold Cup & Triple Bend H. (G1's)

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Appreciating her ability and thinking her connections are putting her through a worthless campaign are not mutually exclusive.

You don't have a sound reason for her not running here though, right?

NT

I do. They gain NOTHING by running her in that spot, assuming they're objective for coming back was Horse of the Year. They started the year with a two pronged path:

1) Beat the reigning Horse of the Year in OP
and/or
2 Win the Classic again

Since 1 fell through, circumstances beyond their control, they're left with 2.
Explain to me how beating Rail Trip or Richard's Kid helps her?

If she doesn't win the classic, she's not HOTY. If she doesn't do the Classic and wins the GC, she's not HOTY. See a pattern?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I do. They gain NOTHING by running her in that spot, assuming they're objective for coming back was Horse of the Year. They started the year with a two pronged path:

1) Beat the reigning Horse of the Year in OP
and/or
2 Win the Classic again

Since 1 fell through, circumstances beyond their control, they're left with 2.
Explain to me how beating Rail Trip or Richard's Kid helps her?

If she doesn't win the classic, she's not HOTY. If she doesn't do the Classic and wins the GC, she's not HOTY. See a pattern?

So you've bought into the whole "Classic or die" mantra that the Moss/Shirreffs/Zenyatta gang has propagated now. I would have thought that someone with the appreciation of racing you have would recognize that a campaign pointed towards one race doesn't necessarily have to include the easiest stops along the way. When dealing with a seemingly great horse, why take the easy road with 6-7 week (or more) breaks? I blame Pletcher as much as anyone for doing it too.

I can tell you this much, if she was running in races like the GC and Pacific Classic and winning them, a 2nd place finish in the BCC with an upset from a new shooter would still equal a HOTY. You still have to try to build a resume to some extent. One that goes a bit beyond the Vanity and Hirsch IMO.

NT

[the_fat_man]

So, your argument, now, is that a 6 year old mare needs to put in her most ambitious year of racing to date, then, turn in a good showing in the GC, to get HOTY. If she were my horse and I had your option on #2 above, I'd go with #2 every time. I'm pretty sure, under those circumstances, you'd go for #2 as well. This horse has done enough, IMO. Keep her fit and try dirt at CD.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

So, your argument, now, is that a 6 year old mare needs to put in her most ambitious year of racing to date, then, turn in a good showing in the GC, to get HOTY. If she were my horse and I had your option on #2 above, I'd go with #2 every time. I'm pretty sure, under those circumstances, you'd go for #2 as well. This horse has done enough, IMO. Keep her fit and try dirt at CD.

So because they've put her through similarly weak and unimaginative campaigns pre-BC in the last two years it's OK for them to do it again?

If she were my horse we would have logged so many frequent flier miles I'd practically own Tex Sutton. Clearly, I wouldn't have been afraid to lose.

NT

[Indian Charlie]

Wasn't that long ago, really, when the Z connections were almost certain they weren't running in the Classic last year. Now? Now it's the end all.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

So, your argument, now, is that a 6 year old mare needs to put in her most ambitious year of racing to date, then, turn in a good showing in the GC, to get HOTY. If she were my horse and I had your option on #2 above, I'd go with #2 every time. I'm pretty sure, under those circumstances, you'd go for #2 as well. This horse has done enough, IMO. Keep her fit and try dirt at CD.

lol
she's 6, not 16. 17 whole races under her belt...yeah, she's used up. when is she going to get started on her most ambitious year? there's no reason she can't take on males in a race other than the classic...surely you don't subscribe to the 'mares shouldn't take on males' theory? you don't think she'd run harder because it's out of her usual sex? she sure didn't look done in after the classic. besides, the classic alone didn't get her HOY last year, i doubt it alone gets her that this year either.

[Duvalier]

Zenyatta's not in either of these races. Why make every f'kn thread about Zenyatta or Rachel? Same people over and over.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

Zenyatta's not in either of these races.

Isn't that the main complaint?

[Port Conway Lane]

She barely squeaks out a win in the Vanity against a horse who was trounced by males in her previous start and she is supposed to run in the Gold Cup against the best male in California. Makes sense.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Danzig

lol
she's 6, not 16. 17 whole races under her belt...yeah, she's used up. when is she going to get started on her most ambitious year? there's no reason she can't take on males in a race other than the classic...surely you don't subscribe to the 'mares shouldn't take on males' theory? you don't think she'd run harder because it's out of her usual sex? she sure didn't look done in after the classic. besides, the classic alone didn't get her HOY last year, i doubt it alone gets her that this year either.

The Fat Man is just issuing a double bind here while trying to play both sides of the fence at the same time.

Zenyatta shouldn't run against Rail Trip because he's not important and beating him does nothing for her in regards to Horse Of The Year. At the same time, she shouldn't run against Rail Trip because he makes the Hollywood Gold Cup too ambitious a spot for her on the road (Easy Street?) towards HOY.

Maybe we should call him "The Fat Man With No Name" with all the spaghetti western posturing he does around here.

Better get a few coffins ready...

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I do. They gain NOTHING by running her in that spot, assuming they're objective for coming back was Horse of the Year. They started the year with a two pronged path:

1) Beat the reigning Horse of the Year in OP
and/or
2 Win the Classic again

Since 1 fell through, circumstances beyond their control, they're left with 2.
Explain to me how beating Rail Trip or Richard's Kid helps her?

If she doesn't win the classic, she's not HOTY. If she doesn't do the Classic and wins the GC, she's not HOTY. See a pattern?

This is complete crap. Quality Road is light years ahead of Zenyatta at this point, and that gap only gets bigger and bigger after he wins the Whitney and Woodward. If she were the favorite for HOY at this point, your argument would make some sense, but she's not. She already has significant ground to make up, and we're only halfway through the year. Unless QR slips up considerably, a Classic win alone won't cut it.

[Danzig]

i agree, quality road is the top of the heap....

and this ought to fan some flames:

http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse...21/worldclass/


charts for top horses at the bottom of the page.

[hockey2315]

Racing Post ratings are so funny.

[Indian Charlie]

How did St. Trinians not make that list?

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

How did St. Trinians not make that list?

Seriously. This confirms the list is bogus.

[tiggerv]

I expected 20 pages in this thread from the Zenyatta haters/fans but complaints about Quality Road? Really? It's a good idea to ship QR all the way to California to run 10F on synthetic but it's too ambitious to ask the big mare to walk 100 feet down the shed row to run her best surface and distance??

Sheriffs ran Life Is Sweet in this spot last year but apparently challenging his best mare more than once a year is too much. The lack of good horses in this country has really created some chicken **** owners who do whatever they can to avoid losing and then act like they are doing fans a favor.

[CSC]

Richard's Kid should be enough to put down the ridiculous hype that is Rail Trip.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by CSC

Richard's Kid should be enough to put down the ridiculous hype that is Rail Trip.

Maybe at Del Mar where the surface is a complete joke.

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by CSC

Richard's Kid should be enough to put down the ridiculous hype that is Rail Trip.

i guess you were not here last year...according to some folks rail trip is a monster. once again he got trounced yesterday. hes a useful horse but hes not that good. i think curlin beat awesome gem by about 12 lengths.....lol...when he was only 4....yeah, rail trip is a world beater...lol...lol