SUN: Racing's media makeover paying off

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Scav

For a couple million please?

I just don't see it. When my wife and I were dating, she had a great job and enjoyed to gamble. We both used to go to Atlantic City often. Then I started taking her to Monmouth in the summer and she liked it. But it was more of a day out type thing. She would look at a program and pick names. She wasn't spending minute's/hours capping races and sequances. She wanted to pick her horses and go back to her magazines that she used to bring. Even when we were home and I would bet by phone, she really couldn't care less about it. And she had the base as well. Meaning her father and brother played the horses and her mother works at OTB.
Now that I really think about it, I think the number is way under the 1/3rd that Riot is looking for.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I just don't see it. When my wife and I were dating, she had a great job and enjoyed to gamble. We both used to go to Atlantic City often. Then I started taking her to Monmouth in the summer and she liked it. But it was more of a day out type thing. She would look at a program and pick names. She wasn't spending minute's/hours capping races and sequances. She wanted to pick her horses and go back to her magazines that she used to bring. Even when we were home and I would bet by phone, she really couldn't care less about it. And she had the base as well. Meaning her father and brother played the horses and her mother works at OTB.
Now that I really think about it, I think the number is way under the 1/3rd that Riot is looking for.

It is more like 1 in 20 or maybe even 1 in 30.

The thought that woman are going to take a 1/4 of their paycheck, spend the night before handicapping, get to the track before the first race for their favorite area, get a voucher, send in some $24 P3 tickets, and focus all day at the track is absolutely nuts.

Don't get me wrong, I love woman at the racetrack but 99% of them are there for one or many of the following reasons

1) Nothing to do in the area so they can go be outside and have some drinks
2) Their group of guy friends are going out there and they are tagging along
3) It is a 'big deal' day and they get to dress up and look all hot, thus gathering massive amounts of attention all day
4) They are taking their family out there to show the kids the jockeys and the ponies
5) They are getting dragged out there by their boyfriend
6) They are on a date out there (actually a great idea for anyone that hasn't tried this, just go to a different track then your local hole)
7) They are there because they actually like racing, and they are betting, but in small amounts

I think even the girls on this board will admit they are not rolling to the track with $300 ready to go apeshit the whole day. I have been to the track with both Sightseek and Uncly. Sightseek was all dressed up and all about the horses, including repeativitly telling me how awesome She Be Wild was, when I didn't use her at all, and she maybe bet $50-$60 the whole day ..Uncly went and had a beer with me and was yelling exactas and win bets at this kid and bet all of maybe $60 the whole day and she was happy as pie.

Both of these girls have decent jobs, can handle themselves in a horse racing conversation and are completely competent with a Form, more then probably 90% of the woman in this world, and they are still aren't firing away.

[hockey2315]

Repeativitly?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Repeativitly?

I am good at creating words that aren't words but people around me usually understand what I am trying to say

[DerbyCat]

Originally Posted by Scav

The thought that woman are going to take a 1/4 of their paycheck, spend the night before handicapping, get to the track before the first race for their favorite area, get a voucher, send in some $24 P3 tickets, and focus all day at the track is absolutely nuts.

I think even the girls on this board will admit they are not rolling to the track with $300 ready to go apeshit the whole day.

Well, I guess I'm not the typical DT chick, I buy the form regularly from the local smoke shop, I take hundreds with me to the track (lost $250 Sunday) and I fire with both fists at P3's and P4's. I love this game but if I didn't have disposable income I could never afford it. I also collect racing art and other memorabilia, donate to rescue groups and listen to Byk's radio show But I know I am the rare female fan.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

Well, I guess I'm not the typical DT chick, I buy the form regularly from the local smoke shop, I take hundreds with me to the track (lost $250 Sunday) and I fire with both fists at P3's and P4's. I love this game but if I didn't have disposable income I could never afford it. I also collect racing art and other memorabilia, donate to rescue groups and listen to Byk's radio show But I know I am the rare female fan.

You were part of the 1% that do. I know how you roll..

But seriously, let me ask you this, how many other woman roll that way at your local OTB?

I am not saying it is impossible, and matter of fact I know of one woman at Arlington that is in her late 30's that regularly is there with a brick of cash, but she is the ONLY one there.

[DerbyCat]

Originally Posted by Scav

You were part of the 1% that do. I know how you roll..

But seriously, let me ask you this, how many other woman roll that way at your local OTB?

I am not saying it is impossible, and matter of fact I know of one woman at Arlington that is in her late 30's that regularly is there with a brick of cash, but she is the ONLY one there.

Well, Joyce does but other than that I think there's only one little old Asian lady that's dropping some serious cash, but I'm pretty sure she's money laundering

[Riot]

The thought that woman are going to take a 1/4 of their paycheck, spend the night before handicapping, get to the track before the first race for their favorite area, get a voucher, send in some $24 P3 tickets, and focus all day at the track is absolutely nuts.

LOL - I agree. First, spending a flat 25% of one's income gambling is a concept I think many men and women would find imperfect Secondly, few people can regularly take time off their jobs to physically attend a race track multiple times a week.

But the above is not the only scenario that defines a gambler. Busy professionals may not gamble frequently, but they certainly have the income to gamble significant amounts of money when they chose to. And women are a large part of that group today.

I know several women who spend a good amount of money ($1000 or more) monthly, and quite a few who spend a little here and there. As I said, ADW's make it easy.

Keeneland is a boutique meet, certainly, but look at the numbers of women walking up to the windows there. Churchill, Turfway ...

Women don't want to go to an OTB. I can't stand Keeneland in winter - drunk, swearing, loud guys rule the roost many days on the general open floors. But TV and an ADW make racing - and gambling - easily accessible.

Women also don't generally feel the need to publically compare the size of their winnings thus I think fly under the radar more (look at this board).

I know some like to picture themselves as hardened racetracker originals, big spenders and tough gamblers, etc - feel free to embrace that, but it's far from the only paradigm. Cigar-smoking college guys throwing away a couple hundred a day may rule the apron at Keeneland in spring, but upstairs - and at home - there are plenty of people quietly pursuing a more businesslike model to gambling, and that takes significant disposable income, and women are right there. Don't discount a huge potential audience of intelligent, risk-enjoying, high income people just because they don't have peni.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Riot

LOL - I agree. First, spending a flat 25% of one's income gambling is a concept I think many men and women would find imperfect Secondly, few people can regularly take time off their jobs to physically attend a race track multiple times a week.

But the above is not the only scenario that defines a gambler. Busy professionals may not gamble frequently, but they certainly have the income to gamble significant amounts of money when they chose to. And women are a large part of that group today.

I know several women who spend a good amount of money ($1000 or more) monthly, and quite a few who spend a little here and there. As I said, ADW's make it easy.

Keeneland is a boutique meet, certainly, but look at the numbers of women walking up to the windows there. Churchill, Turfway ...

Women don't want to go to an OTB. I can't stand Keeneland in winter - drunk, swearing, loud guys rule the roost many days on the general open floors. But TV and an ADW make racing - and gambling - easily accessible.

Women also don't generally feel the need to publically compare the size of their winnings thus I think fly under the radar more (look at this board).

I know some like to picture themselves as hardened racetracker originals, big spenders and tough gamblers, etc - feel free to embrace that, but it's far from the only paradigm. Cigar-smoking college guys throwing away a couple hundred a day may rule the apron at Keeneland in spring, but upstairs - and at home - there are plenty of people quietly pursuing a more businesslike model to gambling, and that takes significant disposable income, and women are right there. Don't discount a huge potential audience of intelligent, risk-enjoying, high income people just because they don't have peni.

I think you would agree that the gals from this board who are talking about their wagering adventures are females that GREW UP liking racing. They didn't attach to it at 24 years of age. It has been in their blood since very young.

And quite honestly, I don't think marketing to woman in areas like Saratoga, all of Kentucky, Florida, and even in California is a bad thing because those areas are probably the high concentrate of horse population and it is more popular there, but if you were to market horse racing to woman in say Chicago, or Los Angeles, or New York, you are barking up the wrong tree there and wasting money.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Riot

LOL - I agree. First, spending a flat 25% of one's income gambling is a concept I think many men and women would find imperfect Secondly, few people can regularly take time off their jobs to physically attend a race track multiple times a week.

But the above is not the only scenario that defines a gambler. Busy professionals may not gamble frequently, but they certainly have the income to gamble significant amounts of money when they chose to. And women are a large part of that group today.

I know several women who spend a good amount of money ($1000 or more) monthly, and quite a few who spend a little here and there. As I said, ADW's make it easy.

Keeneland is a boutique meet, certainly, but look at the numbers of women walking up to the windows there. Churchill, Turfway ...

Women don't want to go to an OTB. I can't stand Keeneland in winter - drunk, swearing, loud guys rule the roost many days on the general open floors. But TV and an ADW make racing - and gambling - easily accessible.

Women also don't generally feel the need to publically compare the size of their winnings thus I think fly under the radar more (look at this board).

I know some like to picture themselves as hardened racetracker originals, big spenders and tough gamblers, etc - feel free to embrace that, but it's far from the only paradigm. Cigar-smoking college guys throwing away a couple hundred a day may rule the apron at Keeneland in spring, but upstairs - and at home - there are plenty of people quietly pursuing a more businesslike model to gambling, and that takes significant disposable income, and women are right there. Don't discount a huge potential audience of intelligent, risk-enjoying, high income people just because they don't have peni.

But just because they go to the track doesn't mean that they all sit home betting into their accounts (if they even have them). I'm sure that there's a segment that does, but I'm sure that they are the minority by a large margin.
I think it's a very tough sport to lure new fans to, let alone women. Most handicappers (die hard fans) were most likely introduced to the sport at a young age. Then they continued or rediscovered the sport somewhere down the road in life. I personally gambled on all types of things and eventually came back to Racing for various reason. One of them is that I enjoy (most of the time) taking the time to handicap and try to put the puzzle together.

Personally I think that is one of the biggest problems drawing people in (especially younger ones). There's no instant gratafication, of winning a poker pot, blackjack hand, spin on a slot machine and so on. Also no studing or time is needed to pick/put horses together in a sequance. People want action and want it as quick as they can get it. I think that they don't want to study/watch replays for an hour or two and then go to the track and watch 2-3 races an hour.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Scav

You were part of the 1% that do. I know how you roll..

But seriously, let me ask you this, how many other woman roll that way at your local OTB?

I am not saying it is impossible, and matter of fact I know of one woman at Arlington that is in her late 30's that regularly is there with a brick of cash, but she is the ONLY one there.

The biggest reason I don't walk into an OTB is 1) I have a Twinspires and NYRA account; and 2) nearly every person in there has a close minded viewpoint towards woman. Saying stupid stuff like "Can you read that?" while pointing to your Form. I bet around $400 this past weekend, is marketing to people like me (who yes, enjoy dressing up and love horses ) really not worth it? Sure there are people betting TONS more than that, but trying to attract numbers of woman like me, is not a bad thing!

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

Well, I guess I'm not the typical DT chick, I buy the form regularly from the local smoke shop, I take hundreds with me to the track (lost $250 Sunday) and I fire with both fists at P3's and P4's. I love this game but if I didn't have disposable income I could never afford it. I also collect racing art and other memorabilia, donate to rescue groups and listen to Byk's radio show But I know I am the rare female fan.

you are... of course there are others out there too. A lot of female racing fans would do all of the above except wager $1000 + a week...

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

Well, I guess I'm not the typical DT chick, I buy the form regularly from the local smoke shop, I take hundreds with me to the track (lost $250 Sunday) and I fire with both fists at P3's and P4's. I love this game but if I didn't have disposable income I could never afford it. I also collect racing art and other memorabilia, donate to rescue groups and listen to Byk's radio show But I know I am the rare female fan.

And that is the key here - male or female, it more matters how much disposable income you can lose if gambling on the races is something you enjoy. Would I love to fire away with a couple thousand for the Breeder's Cup? Hell yeah.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

And that is the key here - male or female, it more matters how much disposable income you can lose if gambling on the races is something you enjoy. Would I love to fire away with a couple thousand for the Breeder's Cup? Hell yeah.

And the thing is, you will be able to in the not too distant future as will many other women and minorities.

You are a single, independent (i always spell that wrong) woman in your thirties on the cusp of your prime earning years. Flashback 30 years ago-how many of us were there? Scav- do you want to bet there are a LOT more today? and that being the case...

Just go to an OTB and count the number of women and men.

Then come back here and keep kidding yourself.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Just go to an OTB and count the number of women and men.

Then come back here and keep kidding yourself.

But thats the point coach isnt it? I love racing. I will sit here online with you fools all day and night long and I will bet on youbet. But go to an OTB?

There is a place in Manhattan called the Playwright. I'm sure the NY contingent knows about it. Its not a bad place. But really...its kind of gross. Most OTB's seem seedy. Im sure there are exceptions but most I have encountered are disgusting looking places.

Go to Charlestown on a saturday night. Yes, charlestown West Virginia. The dining room is PACKED and anyone who has been there will say that it is easily 50% female (most likely over 50%). They are there for the racing and the gambling. Sure, its not Saratoga, but at the same time its suitable and you aren't sitting around a bunch of scuzzy guys yelling obscentities at a tv.

As the product becomes more female friendly, you will see an increase in female fans. Is it not fair to say that VENUE is a huge part of the product?

Maybe it could work if the ladies could bet on horses in a race and have a tiered list of items they could win instead of money. Say like a vajazzle for the favorite or a coach purse for the longest shot on the board. ANd if they play exotics they could win big prizes like a pink miata for the chalk exacta or a weeks vacation to Chicago and tickets to Oprah.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Scav

It is more like 1 in 20 or maybe even 1 in 30.

The thought that woman are going to take a 1/4 of their paycheck, spend the night before handicapping, get to the track before the first race for their favorite area, get a voucher, send in some $24 P3 tickets, and focus all day at the track is absolutely nuts.

Don't get me wrong, I love woman at the racetrack but 99% of them are there for one or many of the following reasons

1) Nothing to do in the area so they can go be outside and have some drinks
2) Their group of guy friends are going out there and they are tagging along
3) It is a 'big deal' day and they get to dress up and look all hot, thus gathering massive amounts of attention all day
4) They are taking their family out there to show the kids the jockeys and the ponies
5) They are getting dragged out there by their boyfriend
6) They are on a date out there (actually a great idea for anyone that hasn't tried this, just go to a different track then your local hole)
7) They are there because they actually like racing, and they are betting, but in small amounts

I think even the girls on this board will admit they are not rolling to the track with $300 ready to go apeshit the whole day. I have been to the track with both Sightseek and Uncly. Sightseek was all dressed up and all about the horses, including repeativitly telling me how awesome She Be Wild was, when I didn't use her at all, and she maybe bet $50-$60 the whole day ..Uncly went and had a beer with me and was yelling exactas and win bets at this kid and bet all of maybe $60 the whole day and she was happy as pie.

Both of these girls have decent jobs, can handle themselves in a horse racing conversation and are completely competent with a Form, more then probably 90% of the woman in this world, and they are still aren't firing away.

This is very narrow. It is thinking like this that limits the sport. You can't make statements like "99%" of anything based on the limited sampling of people in which you have come in contact. Its a big world out there Scav.

I am bringing a $1000 to the Preakness on Saturday. Yeah, its not break the bank money but it will be enough to play pick 4's, three horse exacta boxes and maybe some tri's in the bigger fields and yes I will keep firing until the last race.

Some of what you say is true. Book club is not exactly packed with horseplayers or girlfriends that would even know how to make a wager. At the same time, I run into plenty of women that are either into the sport in some fashion or would LIKE to be.

I would love some demographic breakdowns on poker, table games or even lotteries. I would bet (more than $2 scav) that the percentage of females in these gambling endeavors is rising. Forget just gaming, look at the way the NFL markets to women. Is it just a coincidence that the meteoric rise of the NFL as the overwhelmingly dominant sport in the US coincided with the way the sport marketed to women? How about Nascar? How about professional poker? Look at what hockey is doing during this renaissance.

Steve said it perfectly. Do you guys really think that the trends of women and minorities as sports fans and gamblers is going to suddenly begin to revert?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

This is very narrow. It is thinking like this that limits the sport. You can't make statements like "99%" of anything based on the limited sampling of people in which you have come in contact. Its a big world out there Scav.

I am bringing a $1000 to the Preakness on Saturday. Yeah, its not break the bank money but it will be enough to play pick 4's, three horse exacta boxes and maybe some tri's in the bigger fields and yes I will keep firing until the last race.

Some of what you say is true. Book club is not exactly packed with horseplayers or girlfriends that would even know how to make a wager. At the same time, I run into plenty of women that are either into the sport in some fashion or would LIKE to be.

I would love some demographic breakdowns on poker, table games or even lotteries. I would bet (more than $2 scav) that the percentage of females in these gambling endeavors is rising. Forget just gaming, look at the way the NFL markets to women. Is it just a coincidence that the meteoric rise of the NFL as the overwhelmingly dominant sport in the US coincided with the way the sport marketed to women? How about Nascar? How about professional poker? Look at what hockey is doing during this renaissance.

Steve said it perfectly. Do you guys really think that the trends of women and minorities as sports fans and gamblers is going to suddenly begin to revert?

Listen, I am not saying that there are not woman out there that don't go nuts at the track. There obviously are.

I don't disagree what Steve has said from the start of this website, if you get people to the track, they will come back because they end up liking it.

But to focus an entire or partial marketing push on 18-30 year old woman is absolutely a waste of money, in an industry that is already being bled dry.

I am of the belief that you have to solidify your account base before you can attract new customers. Horse racing's 'base' is far from solid. They are losing big bettors daily to greener pastures.

[richard]

It seems women like the slots so they can easily transfer some fun bets to horses at a racino. After all, the women can relate to the fillies, female jockeys, female trainers , female owners.