Discreet Cat's BC Plans Announced

King Glorious · #1 10-01-2006, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

If they send him to the sprint, it may be the dumbest move ever by an owner.

I agree. Racing to the lead in 22.88 is different than being pressured in 21.40 I don't think he has the natural speed to contend with the best sprinters in the world.

BTW, I am not sure what u are getting at when u say it's all about me. I'm asking a simple question here. Why is it so wrong to think outside of traditional paths when may have a horse of a generation?

blackthroatedwind · #2 10-01-2006, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I agree. Racing to the lead in 22.88 is different than being pressured in 21.40 I don't think he has the natural speed to contend with the best sprinters in the world.

BTW, I am not sure what u are getting at when u say it's all about me. I'm asking a simple question here. Why is it so wrong to think outside of traditional paths when may have a horse of a generation?

There will be no serious conversation allowed in this thread!

GPK · #3 10-01-2006, 05:30 PM

Dont make me get Bethani in here to take care of you guys...

ateamstupid · #4 10-01-2006, 05:58 PM

My point was mistaken.

This horse is something special. But he's also fragile and lightly-raced. Running him in any BC race, be it the Sprint, Mile, Classic, whatever, is ridiculous off of wins over Rumspringa and Valid Notebook.

Do any of you realize how much that would put this potential superstar through the wringer? And why? So we get immediate satisfaction.

Can we please think bigger picture here? If this horse stays healthy (given that's a big if), we could possibly see the best handicap horse in a few decades next year.. But no, we have to see him in the SPRINT against the BEST SPRINTERS IN THE WORLD, or in the CLASSIC against the BEST DISTANCE HORSES IN THE WORLD, and we have to see it NOW.

It's totally short-sighted and unnecessary. I think Godolphin is doing what's right by the horse, and honestly, as much as everyone dislikes the Sheiks, they seem to be among the best at managing their horses in the U.S.

Gander · #5 10-01-2006, 06:09 PM

I very much doubt we'll see either Joey. No BC, yet not a horse likely to be around for a long time either. I hope I am wrong, its nice to see top talent but it seems the most talented are also the most fragile, a la Surf Cat, Ghostzapper.

Anyway you slice it next Saturday will be super and so will the BC.

King Glorious · #6 10-01-2006, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

My point was mistaken.

This horse is something special. But he's also fragile and lightly-raced. Running him in any BC race, be it the Sprint, Mile, Classic, whatever, is ridiculous off of wins over Rumspringa and Valid Notebook.

Do any of you realize how much that would put this potential superstar through the wringer? And why? So we get immediate satisfaction.

Can we please think bigger picture here? If this horse stays healthy (given that's a big if), we could possibly see the best handicap horse in a few decades next year.. But no, we have to see him in the SPRINT against the BEST SPRINTERS IN THE WORLD, or in the CLASSIC against the BEST DISTANCE HORSES IN THE WORLD, and we have to see it NOW.

It's totally short-sighted and unnecessary. I think Godolphin is doing what's right by the horse, and honestly, as much as everyone dislikes the Sheiks, they seem to be among the best at managing their horses in the U.S.

I guess where we disagree is how much of a factor the competition he faces matters. I think if he's going to run in the Cigar Mile a few weeks after the BC, where he would face much better than he's been facing in these last two, including maybe Silver Train, it's going to take a strong effort for him to win. What is the difference if he's putting in a strong effort in the Cigar or in the BC?

If he's as fragile as u say (and I'm not saying he isn't), then what makes u think we'll see anything resembling a full campaign from him next year? Or would it be enough for u to see a Ghostzapper type of year from him where he races four times? I say that tomorrow is not promised and when u have a hot iron, u strike. If he's as fragile as u say, wouldn't that be even more of a reason to take advantage of his abilities while he's in form and healthy because it's always going to be 50/50 next year?

I wonder if anyone on this board is old enough to remember when horses actually RACED. Now we are talking about skipping a tough race because it would be too tough on him? If he continues on next year, it's very likely that they will point to the Dubai World Cup with him. U don't expect that race to be tough? It would probably be his first start at 10f and first or second start off a layoff.

blackthroatedwind · #7 10-01-2006, 06:28 PM

I just got off the phone with the Sheik......

I tried to ask him about Discreet Cat....

He would have none of it!

He, of course, was merely calling to wish me all the best on Yom Kippur.

King Glorious · #8 10-01-2006, 06:39 PM

I read this on another board so I can't take credit for it but it does make sense:

"There is also the aspect that by giving the public Discreet Cat vs Bernardini in the BC Classic they are validating that as the biggest dirt race in the world. If instead Bernardini wins the Classic and meets an undefeated Discreet Cat in the World Cup you could call that the biggest dirt race in the World and to make matters even better for them it would be Coolmore free."

King Glorious · #9 10-01-2006, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

My point was mistaken.

This horse is something special. But he's also fragile and lightly-raced. Running him in any BC race, be it the Sprint, Mile, Classic, whatever, is ridiculous off of wins over Rumspringa and Valid Notebook.

Do any of you realize how much that would put this potential superstar through the wringer? And why? So we get immediate satisfaction.

Can we please think bigger picture here? If this horse stays healthy (given that's a big if), we could possibly see the best handicap horse in a few decades next year.. But no, we have to see him in the SPRINT against the BEST SPRINTERS IN THE WORLD, or in the CLASSIC against the BEST DISTANCE HORSES IN THE WORLD, and we have to see it NOW.

It's totally short-sighted and unnecessary. I think Godolphin is doing what's right by the horse, and honestly, as much as everyone dislikes the Sheiks, they seem to be among the best at managing their horses in the U.S.

U say u think that they are doing what's right by the horse. Well let me show u something that I just read on a racing site:

"We'll keep our options open for the Breeders' Cup or Cigar Mile," bin Suroor added. "This horse has the class to run in big group I races. Everything we've asked, he's done so easily. That gives us a lot of confidence for the future. We'll probably give it 10 days, and then decide with Sheikh Mohammed (bin Rashid al Maktoum)."

So my question is would u still think they are doing right by him if they run him in the BC? They've been constantly saying that it's very unlikely but now finally they are saying they are keeping their options open. The door is now opened much wider than it was before. Since u say they are doing right by him and they are among the best at managing their horses, would u backtrack off of that statement if they do contrary to what u believe is best or would still say the same thing?

Gander · #10 10-01-2006, 07:23 PM

I wonder if anyone on this board is old enough to remember when horses actually RACED.

I do. It was a wonderful time and not too long ago we were spoiled by horses like Cigar and Skip Away.

I couldnt agree more with the comments regarding that it makes little difference whether or not Discreet Cat has a taxing effort in the BC Sprint versus the Cigar Mile. After all, Silver Train is no slouch and will at least make the horse work a bit.

Well, at least we have the Vosburgh!

ateamstupid · #11 10-01-2006, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

U say u think that they are doing what's right by the horse. Well let me show u something that I just read on a racing site:

"We'll keep our options open for the Breeders' Cup or Cigar Mile," bin Suroor added. "This horse has the class to run in big group I races. Everything we've asked, he's done so easily. That gives us a lot of confidence for the future. We'll probably give it 10 days, and then decide with Sheikh Mohammed (bin Rashid al Maktoum)."

So my question is would u still think they are doing right by him if they run him in the BC? They've been constantly saying that it's very unlikely but now finally they are saying they are keeping their options open. The door is now opened much wider than it was before. Since u say they are doing right by him and they are among the best at managing their horses, would u backtrack off of that statement if they do contrary to what u believe is best or would still say the same thing?

I would backtrack a bit, just because in my opinion, he's not ready to go into the BCS or the BCC, but I don't think they're going to try a BC race unless the horse is 100% ready both physically and mentally. If he goes in either, I have to believe they know what they're doing, because, like I said, I feel that they're among the best at managing their horses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I guess where we disagree is how much of a factor the competition he faces matters. I think if he's going to run in the Cigar Mile a few weeks after the BC, where he would face much better than he's been facing in these last two, including maybe Silver Train, it's going to take a strong effort for him to win. What is the difference if he's putting in a strong effort in the Cigar or in the BC?

Okay.. I'm going out on a limb here and saying that it's going to take a much more taxing performance to run six furlongs against a full field of the best sprinters in the world or ten furlongs against a full field of the best distance dirt horses in the world off of five weeks' rest than it would take to run against six or seven mid-level Grade 1 horses at a mile off eight weeks' rest. I guess that's just me. You seem two think the two would be equally strenuous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If he's as fragile as u say (and I'm not saying he isn't), then what makes u think we'll see anything resembling a full campaign from him next year? Or would it be enough for u to see a Ghostzapper type of year from him where he races four times? I say that tomorrow is not promised and when u have a hot iron, u strike. If he's as fragile as u say, wouldn't that be even more of a reason to take advantage of his abilities while he's in form and healthy because it's always going to be 50/50 next year?

That's my point. I'm of the mind that if he skips the BC this year, he will have a much better shot of having a full campaign next year than he would were they to force him into the BC now. Could he still get injured next year? Of course, but I think considering his fragility, common sense should steer them away from this year's BC if they do indeed have intentions on running him as a 4-year-old.

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I wonder if anyone on this board is old enough to remember when horses actually RACED. Now we are talking about skipping a tough race because it would be too tough on him? If he continues on next year, it's very likely that they will point to the Dubai World Cup with him. U don't expect that race to be tough? It would probably be his first start at 10f and first or second start off a layoff.

Give me a break. The horse beat Rumspringa at seven furlongs and Valid Notebook at a one-turn mile. Those are his two starts since March. YOU WANT TO RUN HIM AGAINST THE BEST DIRT HORSES IN THE WORLD OFF OF THOSE TWO RACES. You're suggesting that it's some outlandish idea to skip the race, when I think it's ludicrous to run in the race.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I want to see him in the Cigar Mile, take the rest of the winter off, and then go into a prep for the Met Mile next year, the Met Mile, all of the big summer/fall GIs, the BC Classic, and then HOY!!!

That's what I'd like to see as well.

And for the record, if he does run in a BC race, I think the Classic makes more sense, just because I feel that going from seven furlongs to eight to ten is much easier than going from seven to eight, then back to six, when you're talking about this caliber of competition.

kentuckyrosesinmay · #12 10-01-2006, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

That's what I'd like to see as well.

And for the record, if he does run in a BC race, I think the Classic makes more sense, just because I feel that going from seven furlongs to eight to ten is much easier than going from seven to eight, then back to six, when you're talking about this caliber of competition.

As fragile as DC is, I really feel like the speed required for the Sprint, and the distance of the Classic may be a step too far for this phenomenal horse off of an eight furlong race.

philcski · #13 10-03-2006, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I would backtrack a bit, just because in my opinion, he's not ready to go into the BCS or the BCC, but I don't think they're going to try a BC race unless the horse is 100% ready both physically and mentally. If he goes in either, I have to believe they know what they're doing, because, like I said, I feel that they're among the best at managing their horses.

Okay.. I'm going out on a limb here and saying that it's going to take a much more taxing performance to run six furlongs against a full field of the best sprinters in the world or ten furlongs against a full field of the best distance dirt horses in the world off of five weeks' rest than it would take to run against six or seven mid-level Grade 1 horses at a mile off eight weeks' rest. I guess that's just me. You seem two think the two would be equally strenuous.

That's my point. I'm of the mind that if he skips the BC this year, he will have a much better shot of having a full campaign next year than he would were they to force him into the BC now. Could he still get injured next year? Of course, but I think considering his fragility, common sense should steer them away from this year's BC if they do indeed have intentions on running him as a 4-year-old.

Give me a break. The horse beat Rumspringa at seven furlongs and Valid Notebook at a one-turn mile. Those are his two starts since March. YOU WANT TO RUN HIM AGAINST THE BEST DIRT HORSES IN THE WORLD OFF OF THOSE TWO RACES. You're suggesting that it's some outlandish idea to skip the race, when I think it's ludicrous to run in the race.

That's what I'd like to see as well.

And for the record, if he does run in a BC race, I think the Classic makes more sense, just because I feel that going from seven furlongs to eight to ten is much easier than going from seven to eight, then back to six, when you're talking about this caliber of competition.

Silver Train?

Quite a few horses have won the Sprint on a cutback. The race ALWAYS sets up for a midpack runner/closer on a cutback with the insane early fractions. I think if they put him in the BC Sprint, he wins.

kentuckyrosesinmay · #14 10-01-2006, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

My point was mistaken.

This horse is something special. But he's also fragile and lightly-raced. Running him in any BC race, be it the Sprint, Mile, Classic, whatever, is ridiculous off of wins over Rumspringa and Valid Notebook.

Do any of you realize how much that would put this potential superstar through the wringer? And why? So we get immediate satisfaction.

Can we please think bigger picture here? If this horse stays healthy (given that's a big if), we could possibly see the best handicap horse in a few decades next year.. But no, we have to see him in the SPRINT against the BEST SPRINTERS IN THE WORLD, or in the CLASSIC against the BEST DISTANCE HORSES IN THE WORLD, and we have to see it NOW.

It's totally short-sighted and unnecessary. I think Godolphin is doing what's right by the horse, and honestly, as much as everyone dislikes the Sheiks, they seem to be among the best at managing their horses in the U.S.

I want to see him in the Cigar Mile, take the rest of the winter off, and then go into a prep for the Met Mile next year, the Met Mile, all of the big summer/fall GIs, the BC Classic, and then HOY!!!

Gander · #15 10-01-2006, 05:29 PM

He doesnt have to be on the lead. He is as effective 5 lengths or so off the pace, which is where he'd be if he ran the fractions he ran today. What an amazing talent, hope he enters in a race with some meaning in it. Otherwise he'll just be another "What if".

my miss storm cat · #16 10-01-2006, 07:20 PM

Excerpt.....

"He has the class to go to Grade One races now. There is either the Breeders' Cup Classic (Churchill Downs) in early November or the Cigar Mile (Aqueduct) at the end of that month. We will keep the options open and consult with Sheikh Mohammed." - Saeed bin Suroor

http://godolphin.com/News/2006/October/arch2989.asp

randallscott35 · #17 10-01-2006, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

Excerpt.....

"He has the class to go to Grade One races now. There is either the Breeders' Cup Classic (Churchill Downs) in early November or the Cigar Mile (Aqueduct) at the end of that month. We will keep the options open and consult with Sheikh Mohammed." - Saeed bin Suroor

http://godolphin.com/News/2006/October/arch2989.asp

There is zero chance IMO that he ends up in the Classic if Bernardini goes. None.