Carrying the hopes of California all the way to the Kentucky Derby

[NTamm1215]

Did anyone else catch that Trevor Denman used that recycled line in this year's SA Derby? On the NBC telecast they showed the replay of Winning Colors winning the SA Derby in 1988 because Gary Stevens was on board and he debuted the line that day and re-used it this year.

NT

[RolloTomasi]

Yep. Noticed that on the live telecast. They had shown the Winning Colors stretch drive a few minutes before post.

He really has become a parody of himself at his peak. It's a shame.

[ninetoone]

He definitely should have gone with the "sprout wings" line again...weak.

[my miss storm cat]

I can't fault him.

It's not scripted, it's of the moment.

I'd repeat myself too.

[herkhorse]

California should hope for a dirt track if they want to get back to the winners circle in the Derby.

[dalakhani]

[quote=herkhorse;642918]California should hope for a dirt track if they want to get back to the winners circle in the Derby.[/QUOTE

i disagree. Its not lack of dirt, its lack of luck. No pun intended.

Pioneer of the nile wins last year's awful derby without that great trip by mine that bird. Cali horses go one/two in the oaks. Blind luck might have been right there with a decent trip.

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by herkhorse

California should hope for a dirt track if they want to get back to the winners circle in the Derby.

i agree, although looking at lucky is pretty good on dirt. some of their other "big" horses were a joke in there and proved it again this year. if you have not seen the horse on dirt , its a big time risk.

[LARHAGE]

How can anyone possibly knock the California horses? The two best were actually screwed on Wednesday and had no chance after the draw, still Make Music For Me comes in 4th and Lucky with an absolutely brutal trip comes in 6th. They run 1-2 in the Oaks and Mona de Momma wins the Humana Distaff, I hardly think they embarassed themselves.

[herkhorse]

No one said the Cali horses were bad.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by herkhorse

No one said the Cali horses were bad.

you right, what was said was actually worse, that they need a dirt track to run well in the Derby....the thought has no rational basis using how well others have performed with shipping the last few years.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

you right, what was said was actually worse, that they need a dirt track to run well in the Derby....the thought has no rational basis using how well others have performed with shipping the last few years.

no, i think the thought is that cali would produce top runners for the derby if they had a dirt track, thus having the best dirt horse move on to churchill, not the best poly horse.

[largo1]

Cali need a dirt track. I NEVER bet the Cali horses in the TC races. I just can't take them that seriously, no matter how nice they seem.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Danzig

no, i think the thought is that cali would produce top runners for the derby if they had a dirt track

The horses would not be better horses because they had run on dirt, the reason they did not win is simply they were not good enough or they did not get a good trip.

Originally Posted by Danzig

not the best poly horse.

what the heck does this mean, they only run on poly at del mar. the horses are horses, where they prep and train means nothing to me. Now if you say that they may develop styles that are not conducive to dirt racing, or that they may move up or down on either surface, I can buy that but in general the best horses are going to win.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Well, I will just write about the Pro-Ride, because I don't feel the Hwd Park surface is nearly as bad. Now, the thing about this Candy horse (that was seemingly ignored) is that his last three "dynamite" races were all on a lonely lead. Not only lonely, but leisurely (even the 7f one.) Now, why is that? It's not because someone couldn't of gone with him. It's because the track doesn't support horses who have to battle (at all) on the pace. Any track in the world, though, still supports lone front runners on a slow pace (that's what Candy had 3x in a row.)

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

The horses would not be better horses because they had run on dirt, the reason they did not win is simply they were not good enough or they did not get a good trip.



what the heck does this mean, they only run on poly at del mar. the horses are horses, where they prep and train means nothing to me. Now if you say that they may develop styles that are not conducive to dirt racing, or that they may move up or down on either surface, I can buy that but in general the best horses are going to win.

i want revenge was an also ran out west. he moved to dirt and showed a whole new dimension and became the derby fave. what i'm saying is, in order for a west coast horse to show he can run well in ky, it would help if he could get the earnings on a dirt surface in the preps. since cali only runs on poly, it would stand to reason that the best horses coming out of your preps are best on poly, not necessarily the best horses in california, or the best shot to win on the dirt at churchill. we all know that the surfaces aren't interchangeable, so why would the horses be? if the preps are to prove who belongs at ky, shouldn't the preps be on the same type surface as the targeted race? shouldn't they be trying to find the best horses on dirt to send??

[10 pnt move up]

Didnt I Want Revenge almost win the Hollywood Fututrity at two on the west coast, dont get fooled by a sudden big beyer when he went to dirt as the beyers on synthetic are way out of wack on the top class levels IMO. I understand its not interchangeable but it is more so than people think it is.

I dont know about the prepping thing, looking at I Want Revenge, Line of David, Zenyatta, Mona De Mamma (sp) yesterday I see no problem with several of these running very well with that move.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

i agree, although looking at lucky is pretty good on dirt. some of their other "big" horses were a joke in there and proved it again this year. if you have not seen the horse on dirt , its a big time risk.

I think what you missed is that most of the horses didn't want any part of a 1 1/4 mile race and the rest hated the slop.

Is Mr. B posting in this thread?