Lawyer Ron Goes to Pletcher..

[Kasept]

If there was an unhappiness with things you think they could have made a rider switch first, had McKee specifically been the issue..

I'll speculate that there's a Breeders' Cup Classic appearance at the center of this... Stonewall likely wants in and Holthus may have been advising against?? Makes as much sense as anything...

Frankly, and I'm not looking to insult Holthus or McKee with this, I don't think they did a good job at all trying to find ways to get Lawyer Ron to relax. You cannot get a free-running horse to "rate" by tugging on him. All that does is make him run harder. That exhausts rider and horse.. You throw the reins at him and let him rate on his own. The horse will do it HIMSELF... You then pick up the reins when you want him to get back into the bit.



(As a sidebar to the above, I had a great talk yesterday with Precisionist's trainer Ross Fenstermaker who had Chris McCarron do EXACTLY this in the Silver Screen and Swaps... 5,000 win rider Tony Black also discussed it yesterday with us on ATRAB and said the same thing... Fenstermaker will be on the show tonight to talk about his late Hall of Famer, and I'll now try to get McCarron as well...)

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Kasept

If there was an unhappiness with things you think they could have made a rider switch first, had McKee specifically been the issue..

I'll speculate that there's a Breeders' Cup Classic appearance at the center of this... Stonewall likely wants in and Holthus may have been advising against?? Makes as much sense as anything...

Frankly, and I'm not looking to insult Holthus or McKee with this, I don't think they did a good job at all trying to find ways to get Lawyer Ron to relax. You cannot get a free-running horse to "rate" by tugging on him. All that does is make him run harder. That exhausts rider and horse.. You throw the reins at him and let him rate on his own. The horse will do it HIMSELF... You then pick up the reins when you want him to get back into the bit.



(As a sidebar to the above, I had a great talk yesterday with Precisionist's trainer Ross Fenstermaker who had Chris McCarron do EXACTLY this in the Silver Screen and Swaps... 5,000 win rider Tony Black also discussed it yesterday with us on ATRAB and said the same thing... Fenstermaker will be on the show tonight to talk about his late Hall of Famer, and I'll now try to get McCarron as well...)

My first thought was that Pletcher finally has his Classic horse...

I would have done the rider switch first.

[paisjpq]

what a classless way to do business...this switch moves LR up in my eyes, though I still think he has little chance if he goes in the classic...I feel bad in a way though for Holthus, even if it is just business he's gotten the horse this far...

[Scav]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

what a classless way to do business...this switch moves LR up in my eyes, though I still think he has little chance if he goes in the classic...I feel bad in a way though for Holthus, even if it is just business he's gotten the horse this far...

Not sure it moves him up anymore then he is. Hard to teach an older horse how to do something new you know. It is like teaching a 20 year old how to tie his shoes a different way. If anyone can do it Pletcher can but I think, from a gambling perspective, this horse is going to get unloaded on now, and some serious value against him, given the right competition

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Scav

Not sure it moves him up anymore then he is. Hard to teach an older horse how to do something new you know. It is like teaching a 20 year old how to tie his shoes a different way. If anyone can do it Pletcher can but I think, from a gambling perspective, this horse is going to get unloaded on now, and some serious value against him, given the right competition

I agree with you ...undoing this horse's desire to be rank and on the front end will be a difficult task even for a guy like Pletcher...but I think a rider change would have been the first and best step to take before a trainer change...I wouldn't bet on LR before so I don't intend to start now.

[Pointg5]

LR doesn't always run off, he's only done that twice now. It's not like he's speed speed speed...I don't think it will change his odds much with Pletch, most people do not respect the horse much to begin with...

Well I have never been convinced Lawyer Ron was all that talented. I like Holthaus and I like McKee, but I dont think style of McKee or Holthause ever fit this horse. If Pletcher can get LR to improve like he did with Fleet Indian then Lawyer Ron is a definate threat in the BCC.

[JJP]

If they're smart they'll ignore the BC Classic and point toward the Cigar Mile. I've never been convinced LR can go 1 1/4 miles.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

Steve that is the statement of a "rank amateur". Riders mean nothing, although they ALL screw up many times.

As far as the trainer switch (I know NOTHING about it) but any of these switches from one of these "flavor of the month" trainers to one of the guys that's won 500 stakes is MORE OFTEN than NOT a good move.

I do not understand how he could wind up with TP if the contract was specific about "no trainer change".

DP..

If riders screw up many times, then I suppose they DO mean something in the scheme of things.. And on the subject of horses that DEMAND the lead, they mean a ton.

You don't see where a guy as small as McKee is ineffectual on this horse? And that his attempted chokeholds are the problem? Please.. As mentioned way back in the thread, the death of Precisionist this week just happened to bring out trainer Ross Fenstermaker and a discussion of how he had McCarron learn to let the horse relax. He had him drop the reins, grab mane and let Precisionist 'rate himself'... which is what many a horse will do. But if you pull on a horse, he pulls back. Wasted energy on both side of the equation...

Still no word on the details of the trainer stipulation in the bill of sale... But I heard from an employee involved in this at CD yesterday, and he said that the Holthus people had been under the impression, likely from the Hines people, that the horse would finish his career under their supervision...

The move is 'wrong' on many fronts, and while horses have been moved forever, this particular episode is another symptom in an ill patient...

[Revolution]

Pletcher couldn't get one of his own to the Classic (ahem Flower Alley) so he goes out and steals one. Lawyer Ron is not winning anything anyway. I would be shocked if he retires this year. Nobody is going to send him any good mares and he would be a Florida caliber stallion anyway.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

With all due respect I highly doubt Pletcher "stole" him. Was Holthus given a raw deal, sure. But Pletcher did nothing to him.

I am sure a phone call or a conversation was had by the people that own Value Plus and Lawyer Ron. Last I checked Value Plus was a Pletcher horse. Who moves a horse with one race left in the year unless somebody suggested it? Only people with no class.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Unless I missed something, what does Value Plus have to do with Lawyer Ron.

Stonewall Farms connection?

Ez

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Oh okay, but I still don't get the correlation. Value Plus, who I think is retired was owned by The Jones's when he ran.

That's all I could come up with...

Ez