Over/Under on Dominguez wins today

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

He already has. I don't get your fixation with trying to knock the individual who is almost universally acclaimed as the best rider on the East Coast and, unlike some of the other perceived top riders, is not a prima donna.

so 1 for 30 or 40 or 50 whatever it is makes him the best rider in the country?

i don't have any personal feelings one way or the other about ramon

the bottom line is 1 BC win and no TC wins ---for him to cement his legacy he must win those races multiple times , the cream always rises to the top in those big races

outside of diehard racing fans on these types of boards or people at the track the general public has no idea who he is

people outside of racing knew Jerry Bailey , PAt Day, Chris McCarron etc - why because they won the most important races multiple times, it's time for Ramon to step up and win those big races

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by gales0678

so 1 for 30 or 40 or 50 whatever it is makes him the best rider in the country?

i don't have any personal feelings one way or the other about ramon

the bottom line is 1 BC win and no TC wins ---for him to cement his legacy he must win those races multiple times , the cream always rises to the top in those big races

outside of diehard racing fans on these types of boards or people at the track the general public has no idea who he is

people outside of racing knew Jerry Bailey , PAt Day, Chris McCarron etc - why because they won the most important races multiple times, it's time for Ramon to step up and win those big races

Challange!

But that's the measuring stick? The guy could win at a 28% clip but since mainstream america doesn't know who he his, that means he's a bad jock. This gets funnier every week.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Challange!

But that's the measuring stick? The guy could win at a 28% clip but since mainstream america doesn't know who he his, that means he's a bad jock. This gets funnier every week.

he's not bad , but he doesn't do it on the big days , he still has time he's only 34 , but let's see more than 1 bc win and some tc winners

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by gales0678

he's not bad , but he doesn't do it on the big days , he still has time he's only 34 , but let's see more than 1 bc win and some tc winners

Since you believe that he "doesn't get it done," please name one or two bad rides that you believe him to have hung up on one of the big days.

If your view of him is that "he's not bad," please tell us who the "good" riders are. I suspect that's going to be an awfully short list.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Since you believe that he "doesn't get it done," please name one or two bad rides that you believe him to have hung up on one of the big days.

If your view of him is that "he's not bad," please tell us who the "good" riders are. I suspect that's going to be an awfully short list.

you guys are missing my point - to me ramon is a stat piler , he wins a lot of races , he wins a lot of stakes races , he wins a lot of racing titles but to be remembered as one of the all time greats he is going to have to prove it on the big days - to date he has not done this , you can talk about him not getting horse until the cows come home , he is 34 this year and still has a lot of years ahead of him where he can win those big races , but , let's not put him in any elite category until he proves it on BC day and in the TC races ----- aren't those races the biggest races every year???

you want to be the top jock in the country fine , but , win on the big days
and i'll shut up

why is it that this board can bash the best trainer in the country regurarly- todd pletcher for not winning derby's , more tc races , more bc races and the best jock according to you experts here can't get bashed for the same failure? it's not like it's only been a year or two , he has been getting mounts for some time now in the big races

i don't get it - if todd can be bashed on here for his lack of production in the tc and bc , why can't ramon be as well ???

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by gales0678

i don't get it

I don't think you'll get much of an argument about that.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by gales0678

i don't get it - if todd can be bashed on here for his lack of production in the tc and bc , why can't ramon be as well ???

Not an apt comparison. . . Trainers and jockeys impact a horse's performance in fundamentally different ways.

Can you give an instance when Ramon blew a ride on a big day?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by gales0678

i don't get it - if todd can be bashed on here for his lack of production in the tc and bc , why can't ramon be as well ???

He's ridden in just 6 Derby's on horses like Desert Party, Monba, Sam P. and High Limit. He got a 2nd with the impossible Bluegrass Cat.

His Preakness mounts have been: Giant Moon, Xchanger, Diabolical, Scrappy T, Foufa's Warrior, Equality, and Bay Eagle ... it's like a who's who of horses that suck... and he was 2nd with the impossible Scrappy T.

He's had just one career mount in the Belmont Stakes - on a mega longshot named Caimen who just ran for a $2,500 claiming tag at Beulah the other day.

There's your 0-for-14 lifetime TC record.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He's ridden in just 6 Derby's on horses like Desert Party, Monba, Sam P. and High Limit. He got a 2nd with the impossible Bluegrass Cat.

His Preakness mounts have been: Giant Moon, Xchanger, Diabolical, Scrappy T, Foufa's Warrior, Equality, and Bay Eagle ... it's like a who's who of horses that suck... and he was 2nd with the impossible Scrappy T.

He's had just one career mount in the Belmont Stakes - on a mega longshot named Caimen who just ran for a $2,500 claiming tag at Beulah the other day.

There's your 0-for-14 lifetime TC record.

and what is the BC record why did you convinetly leave that out?

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He's ridden in just 6 Derby's on horses like Desert Party, Monba, Sam P. and High Limit. He got a 2nd with the impossible Bluegrass Cat.

His Preakness mounts have been: Giant Moon, Xchanger, Diabolical, Scrappy T, Foufa's Warrior, Equality, and Bay Eagle ... it's like a who's who of horses that suck... and he was 2nd with the impossible Scrappy T.

He's had just one career mount in the Belmont Stakes - on a mega longshot named Caimen who just ran for a $2,500 claiming tag at Beulah the other day.

There's your 0-for-14 lifetime TC record.

but let me guess the trainer of that horse got lucky and if ramon wasn't riding that day the horse would have finished 8th right drugs???

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by gales0678

so 1 for 30 or 40 or 50 whatever it is makes him the best rider in the country?

i don't have any personal feelings one way or the other about ramon

the bottom line is 1 BC win and no TC wins ---for him to cement his legacy he must win those races multiple times , the cream always rises to the top in those big races

outside of diehard racing fans on these types of boards or people at the track the general public has no idea who he is

people outside of racing knew Jerry Bailey , PAt Day, Chris McCarron etc - why because they won the most important races multiple times, it's time for Ramon to step up and win those big races

What you should do is bet $2 to win on each of his horses. Do it 500 times then when you have a negative ROI you'll actually have something to b.itch about.

NT

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by gales0678

people outside of racing knew Jerry Bailey , PAt Day, Chris McCarron etc - why because they won the most important races multiple times, it's time for Ramon to step up and win those big races

Let's see, Ramon has been a year-round fixture on the NYRA circuit for all of one year - a year he flat out dominated. Let's give the guy a little time to win TC races, although we shouldn't forget that he did finish second in the Derby and Preakness on horses that were 30-1 and 20-1, respectively.

If the standard is whether a rider is known "outside of racing," then I guess the best riders in 2010 are Mike Smith, Calvin Borel and Joe Talamo.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Let's see, Ramon has been a year-round fixture on the NYRA circuit for all of one year - a year he flat out dominated. Let's give the guy a little time to win TC races, although we shouldn't forget that he did finish second in the Derby and Preakness on horses that were 30-1 and 20-1, respectively.

If the standard is whether a rider is known "outside of racing," then I guess the best riders in 2010 are Mike Smith, Calvin Borel and Joe Talamo.

Yeah and Bejarano's a s.hitbag too since he's 0 for the Triple Crown and has only two BC wins. Those guys, Bejarano and Dominguez, totally suck.

NT

[Kasept]

The clever use of Bailey, McCarron and Day, three of the Top 15 (let's say) riders all time, presents a great benchmark for Ramon Dominguez. So.. because that's the 'standard' used, let's first note that Ramon will be 34 years old this year at the time of the TC and BC. So then, a look at Bailey, McCarron and Day through age 33 would logically be in order.

BC/TC WINS THROUGH AGE 33 -- TOTAL CAREER

DAY: 3 / 21
MCCARRON: 2 /14
DOMINGUEZ 1 / TBD
BAILEY: 0 / 21

Clearly, it's around this point in their careers, mid-30's, that top riders begin to supplant the veteran riders ahead of them for the best horses. Logic would tell you that the kind of horses it takes to win TC and BC races are just starting to come Dominguez' way now.

He already has the one Breeders' Cup win on Better Talk Now, so he's right in amongst the Hall of Famers in terms of timing.

You might think surprising placements on Friendly Island ('06 Sprint, 2nd 59-1), Bluegrass Cat ('06 Derby, 2nd at 30-1), My Cousin Matt ('04 Sprint, 3rd at 60-1) or even Gio Ponti ('09 Classic) might count for something too, but we're holding Dominguez to exacting standards so I suppose those efforts go to further demonstrate what an inept pilot he is...

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Kasept

The clever use of Bailey, McCarron and Day, three of the Top 15 (let's say) riders all time, presents a great benchmark for Ramon Dominguez. So.. because that's the 'standard' used, let's first note that Ramon will be 34 years old this year at the time of the TC and BC. So then, a look at Bailey, McCarron and Day through age 33 would logically be in order.

BC/TC WINS THROUGH AGE 33 -- TOTAL CAREER

DAY: 3 / 21
MCCARRON: 2 /14
DOMINGUEZ 1 / TBD
BAILEY: 0 / 21

Clearly, it's around this point in their careers, mid-30's, that top riders begin to supplant the veteran riders ahead of them for the best horses. Logic would tell you that the kind of horses it takes to win TC and BC races are just starting to come Dominguez' way now.

He already has the one Breeders' Cup win on Better Talk Now, so he's right in amongst the Hall of Famers in terms of timing.

You might think surprising placements on Friendly Island ('06 Sprint, 2nd 59-1), Bluegrass Cat ('06 Derby, 2nd at 30-1), My Cousin Matt ('04 Sprint, 3rd at 60-1) or even Gio Ponti ('09 Classic) might count for something too, but we're holding Dominguez to exacting standards so I suppose those efforts go to further demonstrate what an inept pilot he is...

does this 2nd get an * because it was with a certain trainer ??

i picked three names off the top of my head . you could put cordero , arcaro , kent d whomever you like in there , steve he has not done it in the big spots on the big days eneough to be considered a great

he has time as you point out on his side , but people on this board are making him out to be one of the all time greats already .....let the kid prove it

winning 6 races at day at the big a on the best horse proves nothing when you could put an exercise rider on those same 6 and they would win 5 of those races ..... what 's the big deal , you're on the best horse most of the time your are supposed to win


This is NY steve , like it or not you gotta win when the whole world is watching , just ask A-Rod

Ramon still has time on his side , let's coronate him when he racks up the wins

No once cares about the how many Whitney's or Met Miles or Gotham's he wins expect diehard racing fans ......he's gotta win the big ones before he is coronated