Most Vicious Derby Pace Ever

[The Indomitable DrugS]

You obviously haven't looked at Jerry Brown's pace figures.

He has the pace for last weeks Risen Star 3 full lengths faster than the '86 Derby.

[RolloTomasi]

What do you make of the '98 Kentucky Derby?

IIRC, Old Trieste went out there pretty quick and leading up to the race worked a ridiculous 6f over the Churchill track in 1:09 and change.

[RolloTomasi]

A link to the Old Trieste workout (don't be alarmed by the length, it works):

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...KH17ujRt5Bog2A

Tiny URL:
http://tinyurl.com/ya5d6ll

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Yeah, he also had some pretty serious early trouble at the start if I recall.

That was a very strong pace as well....but not quite like '01.

I think the jockeys were determined to not let what happend in '01 repeat itself the following year ... even though the field had MUCH less quality speed. Perfect Drift would have been loose on the lead if Eddie D. wasn't strangling him back.

I think the top 3 raced 1-2-3 all the way around and made up a huge trifecta payoff.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I think the jockeys were determined to not let what happend in '01 repeat itself the following year ... even though the field had MUCH less quality speed. Perfect Drift would have been loose on the lead if Eddie D. wasn't strangling him back.

IIRC, Perfect Drift hadn't shown much speed up to that point in his career.

I always thought Eddie D. rode a shrewd race by having him up close, was he really pulling?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I bet PD in that race.

I was watching him and only him the whole way and he was somewhere between being rank and very rank.

I don't think there was anything that clever about Eddie D's ride ... the horse would have hooked War Emblem early if Eddie D. didn't fight with him.

I was more confused than anything else about why he was so agressive early on.. I certainly didn't expect him to show that much early speed.

MDO ran the best race that day.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Another interesting thing about the '01 Derby ... the two horses who photo'd for 2nd in the race (Invisible Ink and Congaree) both had tale of woe near death stories when they were just cute wittle baby horseys.

One even had his life saved by rotten buttermilk.

The atmosphere was grim one early April morning in 1998 at Stonerside Stable, Bob and Janice McNair's Kentucky farm. Thoroughbred mare Mari's Sheba was struggling to foal, but, at 152 pounds, the foal was dangerously oversized. Attempts to help pull the tightly lodged foal from the mare only resulted in Mari's Sheba being dragged onto her side.

At two a.m., the chestnut colt was finally born-an hour and a half after his ordeal began. The grueling birth had broken two of his ribs and cracked three others. His lip was paralyzed and hung to one side, earning him the nickname, "Twitch." His first 45 days of life were spent in a stall, fighting for his life. Stable employees spent hours with the colt, trying to prevent him from puncturing his heart with one of his broken ribs. Because of his problems, and the time people spent with him, "Twitch" became a special pet.

"Twitch," or Congaree, as he was later named, recovered from his birth injuries, only to be stricken with pneumonia and diarrhea when he was only six months old. The farm manager, Bobby Spalding, did not think he would survive. The intensive nursing began again.

Amazingly, Congaree did recover, but his troubles were not over yet. He made it to the Del Mar starting gate in September 2000, and placed sixth in a maiden race. After the race, however, x-rays revealed a bone chip in his right knee. Dr. Wayne McIlwraith from the Orthopaedic Research Center performed arthroscopic surgery to remove the chip. This resilient colt, who had been through more illness and injuries in his first two years than most horses face in their lifetimes, spent five months recovering from the surgery.

And recover he did! After three starts and three victories, including the Wood Memorial, Congaree was a prime contender for the 2001 Kentucky Derby.

and ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0szvkKH7ogw

[slotdirt]

How does Congaree compare to Closing Argument in 2005? I always thought he ran by far the best Derby in another particularly quick early paced race.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

What do you make of the '98 Kentucky Derby?

IIRC, Old Trieste went out there pretty quick and leading up to the race worked a ridiculous 6f over the Churchill track in 1:09 and change.

Gary Stute was in awe

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

You obviously haven't looked at Jerry Brown's pace figures.

He has the pace for last weeks Risen Star 3 full lengths faster than the '86 Derby.

lol...this one is good too. the derby went in 1:10 the risen star was faster pace....yeah i believe that too...seeing grovy ended up being a champion sprinter and angel cordero said groovy was the fastest horse he ever put his ass on. thats a good one jerry....lol
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...6581/index.htm

[Port Conway Lane]

I recall Top Avenger set a hot pace for Goto Del Sol (?can't exactly remember the winner) but up until Songandaprayer I believe he may have set the fastest pace in the derby.

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

I recall Top Avenger set a hot pace for Goto Del Sol (?can't exactly remember the winner) but up until Songandaprayer I believe he may have set the fastest pace in the derby.

Top Avenger went the fastest opening 1/4 in Derby history and tied for the second fastest opening 1/2.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

lol...this one is good too. the derby went in 1:10 the risen star was faster pace....yeah i believe that too...seeing grovy ended up being a champion sprinter and angel cordero said groovy was the fastest horse he ever put his ass on. thats a good one jerry....lol
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...6581/index.htm

I was just joking .. Brown didn't really say that... though the way his scale is going -- I wouldn't doubt if he did.

Groovy didn't seem to find himself until after the trainer change to Jose Martin.

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I was just joking .. Brown didn't really say that... though the way his scale is going -- I wouldn't doubt if he did.

Groovy didn't seem to find himself until after the trainer change to Jose Martin.

Groovy was still plenty fast before Martin, who just figured out to keep him sprinting.

Chasing Groovy through the early furlongs that Derby were Zabaleta (who beat Groovy in the Bay Shore and later won the Mervyn Leroy), Bachelor Beau (who won the Blue Grass), and Snow Chief. That wasn't cheap speed. 1-2-3-4 after a quarter ended up 16-12-14-11.

In retrospect, that Derby showed just how talented Broad Brush was. Although in the second flight early on, he was still close enough to feel the pace effects. He had the lead at the quarter pole and stayed on well through the stretch behind Ferdinand but still fighting with the British colt Bold Arrangement. Granted, it wasn't a Congaree performance, but still very good.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Here's Lido Palace getting punked by Express Tour and Street Cry in Dubai in 2001..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8xbh2v0qNs

Here's Lido Palace punking Albert the Great and Tiznow just a few months later ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzZmSndYUJY


I'm not sure what Frankel's record was in Dubai .... but I'm pretty sure it wasn't very good.