|
|
 |
|
|
|
#1
09-25-2006, 03:42 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
i am sick about hearing of a horse who has yet to defeat a grade1 winner and yet to defeat an older horse. ya he looked good with his jockeys silks flowing in the extreme breeze and some view that as speed, i view it as windy that day. some say he defeated BARBARO and BLUGRASS CAT, i say ya, but they both broke down while racing him, so these are moot comparisons. what we have is a three year old who picked his races to run in, picking ones he knew he could win, and in those races his formidable competition runs lame. Last edited by Kasept : 09-26-2006 at 11:45 AM. 
|
|
#2
09-25-2006, 04:03 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
__________________
Alcohol, the cause and solution to all of life's problems. -Homer Simpson
|
|
#3
09-25-2006, 04:15 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
what we have is a three year old who picked his races to run in, picking ones he knew he could win, and in those races his formidable competition runs lame.
I dont agree at all Sec. He hasnt ducked a single horse and in 12 days he takes on the 1st or 2nd handicap horse in the country. Its not his fault Barbaro broke down and SNS and Brother Derek werent at their best. The Dwyer was simply a prep for the Travers that I agree came up very weak, but its not his fault. Hes doing what any really good 3 year old does from May through Oct, beat up on fellow 3 year olds that are either tired from the Triple Crown or just not all that talented. I can understand you feeling he is a bit overhyped. But he'll get his big test next weekend and that should answer many of the people doubting him or gloating about him.
|
|
#4
09-25-2006, 05:04 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#5
09-26-2006, 12:57 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Bernardini doesn't impress me one bit -- Brother Derek should have been rested after the Derby and same with SNS. Both were shot from their Derby efforts. Brother Derek took forever to get back to the track and ran poorly his first time back. SNS was so wiped out that he still hasn't made it back to the races. SNS was staggering down the stretch in the Preakness, Derek folded before the turn, and Bernardini looked a lot better than he should have. Donna Brothers called it before the Preakness. She said both BD and SNS didn't look good. In the Jim Dandy, Sunriver was injured. The rest of the Jim Dandy field were allowance horses at best. Bernardini ran through slow fractions in the Travers (gimme a break -- 48 and nearly 1:13), was urged strongly, hit and urged, yet didn't come home in any riveting fashion. After those fractions, if Bernardini was truly "very special" or "gifted" or whatever Albertrani and his hype machine has been calling him, he should have cooked home in :22 or so. A healthy Bluegrass Cat would have run away from. Bright One would have been in the next county by the time Bernardini hit the wire. Discreet Cat would have been long gone. Bernardini has just been very lucky so far. He's no superhorse. If the shieks let Invasor run he'll beat Bernardini.
|
|
#6
09-26-2006, 01:00 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
jeez someone from del mar actually knows something bout dem horses. good to see an enlightened poster, even if you are from that other board. (too bad joel ruined it for everyone).
|
|
#7
09-26-2006, 01:07 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Moving my tack here, so to speak. Seems to be a better mix of midwest, east, south, and such. Could just read the racing press and skip the chatboards, but sometimes I find I get more truth on the chatboards from people who look at racing from the bettor/fans side. Despite the arguments and such.
|
|
#8
09-26-2006, 01:06 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
And all of those other horses are allowance horses that Bernardini ran against in the Travers too. High Cotton is definitely an allowance horse...yep. As is Dr. Pleasure, Hesanoldsalt, and Minister's Bid. Shame on Pletcher, Zito, and Ward for even putting those horses in that race. Last edited by kentuckyrosesinmay : 09-26-2006 at 01:22 PM.
|
|
#9
09-26-2006, 01:49 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Bluegrass Cat wore front wraps for the first time in the Travers. He had issues before the race. It might not be on the pps, but look at the tapes. Any horse that has run like he has run in GI races can't cut better than a :48+ and 1:12+? He was not the same BC than ran in the Derby and afterward we found that out. Lucky he's alive. He normally wouldn't be injured trying to keep up with a :48+ half and a nearly 1:13 6f call. He was very capable of keeping up with those fractions given normal health. It's not like Bernardini was Ghostzapper and Bluegrass Cat blew out a pastern trying to keep up with a phenomenal pace. A healthy BC would have been well ahead of Bernardini.
|
|
#10
09-26-2006, 02:08 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
You obviously didn't watch Bernardini's Preakness when he sat off the pace of a sub 47 half mile and made a brillant move around the far turn. Why run any faster than you have to? I think Bernardini's best races are going to be those in which he sits off of the pace, and blows by horses, like he did in the Preakness. He found himself on the lead in the Jim Dandy and the Travers because no one else took it. His final time for the Travers was still very fast. Anyway, I'm not excessively big on BSFs. I use them with a red flag because they can be biased. However, when a horse consistently puts up those kind of numbers, he is the real deal. The numbers also show that the horse is improving. A lot of people have had a lot of luck using the numbers and sheets. I personally like watching the replays and looking at the horses in the post parade when betting. Bernardini is the real deal. In watching his races, you can see that he is improving with every start, from his 4th place in his maiden to his Travers. He beat those same horses that he beat by nine lengths in the Jim Dandy, by about 15 lenghts in the Travers. It was also Bernardini's first race going a mile and a quarter. I watch the races, and what I see is a horse with extraordinary talent. Last edited by kentuckyrosesinmay : 09-26-2006 at 02:14 PM.
|
|
#11
09-26-2006, 02:13 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Why compare Ghostzapper and Bernardini now? Bernardini isn't done racing. You don't know what he will become. He could be another overhyped horse, or he could be the next superhorse. From what I have seen, I am banking on the latter. Even if the older horses do beat him...Secretariat, Spectacular Bid, and Affirmed even got beat by older as 3 yos. However, if he beats these horse in the JCGC and BCC, I don't think that there are too many people that are going to leave him off their greatest of all time lists. He'll definitely be on mine. Last edited by kentuckyrosesinmay : 09-26-2006 at 02:37 PM.
|
|
#12
09-26-2006, 01:06 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
I agree with most of what you said, but I think he's a very good horse, not the super horse hype machine kind, but we will see when things haven't always gone his way...
|
|
#13
09-26-2006, 01:09 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
How do you know hes not a super horse? What has he ever done to put any doubts in your head? While I agree he hasnt been tested, its not his fault and that certainly isnt a flaw. Hes just been that much better than the horses he has been running against. Whos to say how super he'll be. What more could Bernardini have done up to this point? I really dont get it? Did you want him to stop while in midstretch, take a crap and sprint on 2 legs to the wire?
|
|
#14
09-26-2006, 01:12 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
|
|
#15
09-26-2006, 01:21 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Gander, Just look at the cold hard facts, he's beaten nobody in average times, he's done nothing to justify the "superhorse" label he has received. Don't tell me about Grade I wins either -- Giacomo won a bigger race than Bernardini, Smarty won more impressively without a rest, Birdstone took down the Belmont and then the Travers. None were called "superhorse". Why should Bernardini be? To me, and he may prove me wrong (but I doubt it), he's a product of the press hoping to move away from Barbaro. A "superhorse" proves it against tough company. Ghostzapper vs. Roses In May or St. Liam cutting a 1 1/4 in 1:59 and change. Bernardini may get a free ride all the way. He surely doesn't have any Ghostzapper, Roses In May, or St. Liam to run against even if he gets past Invasor. He's just a lucky horse in the right place at the right time -- just like Giacomo was.
|
|
#16
09-26-2006, 01:23 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
I think this is known as posting for a reaction. This is your 8th post here...perhaps proving you are NOT a troll would be a great idea before trolling.
|
|
#17
09-26-2006, 01:26 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I'll have to resepctfully disagree, but I get your point.
As far as final times go, why would this horse exert himself when he has an open length lead at the 1/8th pole and barely ran that fast to get it? Do you want him to sprint home like 3 turf horses in a flying finish to the wire? What we should agree on is that next weekend will answer many of the doubts about Bernardini. Like him or not, we should all appreciate that hes sticking around to try elders. Unlike Point Given who never gave it a shot, yet gets heralded as some super horse when all he did was beat E Dubai and Touch Tone.
|
|
#18
09-26-2006, 05:24 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#19
09-26-2006, 01:23 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#20
09-26-2006, 01:26 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
I don't think that Invasor will be any match for this horse. One could also say that Invasor has gotten lucky from a weak older handicap division as well. Who has he beaten? An injured Flower Alley? Where are those extraordinary times that he has been putting up? Now I think Invasor is an extremely nice horse and deserves top older horse honors in the division if he can outdo Lava Man in the BCC, but I think Bernardini is going to prove to be better than him. My opinion is that Bernardini is going to be your HOY. Another thing, I don't know how much weight this holds because something might have been going on with Invasor in Dubai (didn't like the climate, minor injury, didn't ship well), but look at what Discreet Cat did to him in Dubai... Last edited by kentuckyrosesinmay : 09-26-2006 at 01:36 PM.
|
Hybrid Mode
